Author: Keith Ian Price
Date: 20:33:53 01/15/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 15, 2006 at 22:28:12, Christopher Conkie wrote:
>On January 15, 2006 at 20:55:17, Keith Ian Price wrote:
>
>>[D]b1r1qn1k/1rb3p1/2p1p2p/2N1P3/1P1P4/R2B1N2/3Q1PPP/2R3K1 b - - 0 43
>>
>>In this position both Rybka Beta 1.0 and Beta 10d think they have a draw, when
>>they are losing. If you make the move that they think gets them a draw, they
>>both show that they are losing. Is this a null move problem, or why can't they
>>see they are losing until the move is made?
>>
>>kp
>
>Are you sure you have given the correct position?
>
>Christopher
>
>Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit:
> 3 00:00.011 228 233.472 +1.97 Rb6
> 4 00:00.030 556 51.758 +2.03 Rb6
> 5 00:00.060 1.722 33.910 +2.51 Rb6 Rca1
> 6 00:00.141 4.375 40.000 +2.57 Rb6 Rca1 Kg8
> 7 00:00.251 10.361 43.841 +2.59 Rb6 Rca1 Rbb8 Na6
> 8 00:00.662 34.390 54.852 +2.55 Rb6 Ra7 Nd7 Ba6 Rcb8
> 9 00:00.903 53.220 61.718 +2.61 Rb6 Ra7 Nd7 Ba6 Rcb8 Ra1
> 10 00:01.934 137.416 73.518 +2.89 Rb6 Rca1 Rbb8 Na6 Rb7 Nxc7 Rbxc7 Ra7
> 10 00:04.437 293.753 68.085 +2.58 Rbb8 Na6 Rb6 Nxc7 Rxc7 Ra5 Kg8 h3
> 11 00:08.574 524.467 62.710 +2.52 Rbb8 Na6 Rb6 Nxc7 Rxc7 Ra5 Kg8 h3 Bb7
> 12 00:17.386 1.057.238 66.077 +2.59 Rbb8 b5 Bd8 Ne4 cxb5 Rxc8 Rxc8 Nd6 Qe7
>Bxb5
> 13 00:37.055 2.267.229 62.978 +2.81 Rbb8 Na6 Rb6 Nxc7 Rxc7 b5 Bb7 d5 exd5
>Qe3
> 14 00:56.443 3.528.392 64.152 +2.66 Rbb8 Na6 Rb7 b5 Bb6 Rxc6 Rxc6 bxc6 Qxc6
>Nb4
> 15 01:14.068 4.806.607 65.843 +2.72 Rbb8 Na6 Rb7 b5 Bb6 Rxc6 Rxc6 bxc6 Qxc6
>Nb4
> 16 03:32.096 13.332.175 64.406 +2.87 Rbb8 Qa2 Rd8 Na6 Rbc8 Nxc7 Rxc7 b5 c5
>b6
>
>Rybka 1.01 Beta 10d 32-bit:
> 3 00:00.361 304 0 +1.97 Rb6
> 4 00:00.361 1.352 0 +2.03 Rb6
> 5 00:00.361 3.240 0 +2.51 Rb6 Rca1
> 6 00:00.412 9.880 0 +2.57 Rb6 Rca1 Kg8
> 7 00:00.552 10.683 0 +2.59 Rb6 Rca1 Rbb8 Na6
> 8 00:00.953 35.012 0 +2.55 Rb6 Ra7 Nd7 Ba6 Nxc5
> 9 00:01.303 57.196 0 +2.61 Rb6 Ra7 Nd7 Ba6 Nxc5 Bxc8
> 10 00:02.355 128.790 0 +2.87 Rb6 Rca1 Rbb8 Na6 Bb7 b5 c5
> 10 00:04.938 293.069 0 +2.58 Rbb8 Na6 Rb6 Nxc7 Rxc7 Rca1 Bb7 Ba6
> 11 00:09.374 557.426 0 +2.52 Rbb8 Na6 Rb6 Nxc7 Rxc7 Ra5 Kg8 h3 Bb7
> 12 00:21.292 1.250.215 0 +2.78 Rbb8 Ne4 Qe7 Ra7 Kg8 Nc5 Nd7 Nxe6 Bb6
> 13 00:26.739 1.605.807 0 +2.72 Rbb8 Ne4 Qe7 Ra7 Kg8 Nc5 Qe8 Bc4 Qf7 Rxc7
> 14 00:37.274 2.346.126 0 +2.80 Rbb8 Ne4 Qe7 Ra7 Kg8 Nc5 Qe8 Bc4 Kh7 Rxc7
>Rxc7 Na6
> 15 01:48.828 6.526.991 0 +2.75 Rbb8 Na6 Rb7 b5 Bb6 Rxc6 Rxc6 bxc6 Qxc6 Nc5
>Bxc5 Rxa8 Rc7 Ra2
> 16 02:37.628 9.313.279 0 +2.75 Rbb8 Na6 Rb7 b5 Bb6 Rxc6 Rxc6 bxc6 Qxc6 Nc5
>Bxc5 Rxa8 Be7 Qf4
> 17 06:28.349 23.124.849 0 +2.87 Rbb8 Qa2 Bd8 Bc4 Be7 Bxe6 Nxe6 Qxe6 Rxb4 Ra7
>Bxc5 Qxe8+ Rxe8 dxc5
Well, I am running the 64-bit editions, and both of them show 0.00 for Rbb8.
Here is the game from which I took the position. Rybka knew it was losing up to
that point, but then thought it had found a draw for 2 moves, then went back to
knowing it was losing. I tried the same position with Beta 10d to see if it
still did the same, and it does, even though there was a clear hash. See move
43:
[Event "Blitz:16'"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2005.12.15"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Deep Shredder 9.02 x64"]
[Black "Rybka 1.0 Beta"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D43"]
[WhiteElo "2500"]
[BlackElo "2500"]
[Annotator "0.81;0.12"]
[PlyCount "159"]
[TimeControl "960"]
{W=15.8 ply; 2,290kN/s; 171 TBAs B=13.6 ply; 190kN/s} 1. d4 {0} d5 {0} 2. c4 {
0} e6 {0} 3. Nf3 {0} Nf6 {0} 4. Nc3 {0} c6 {0} 5. Bg5 {0} h6 {0} 6. Bxf6 {0}
Qxf6 {0} 7. e3 {0} Nd7 {Black last book move 0} 8. Qc2 {0} Bb4 {0.12/13 26} 9.
a3 {White last book move 0} Be7 {0.19/15 32} 10. Bd3 {0.81/16 17} O-O {
0.21/14 23} 11. O-O {0.68/17 35} Re8 {0.23/14 41} 12. Rfe1 {(h3) 0.71/16 22} a6
{(Nf8) 0.26/13 23} 13. Rad1 {(h3) 0.89/16 69} a5 {(Rb8) 0.30/13 22} 14. Qd2 {
(h3) 0.96/15 25} dxc4 {0.19/14 18} 15. Bxc4 {0.83/17 25} b5 {(b6) 0.19/14 25}
16. Ne4 {(Bd3) 1.30/16 20} Qg6 {0.30/15 22} 17. Bd3 {1.54/16 8} f5 {
(Qh5) 0.36/14 23} 18. Ng3 {(Nc5) 1.49/16 10} Qf6 {(Qf7) 0.52/13 22} 19. e4 {
(Rc1) 2.16/16 36} f4 {(Nb8) 0.58/15 26} 20. e5 {(Nh5) 2.44/16 20} Qf8 {
(Qf7) 1.04/14 15} 21. Nh5 {2.61/16 17} Qf7 {1.04/13 6} 22. Nxf4 {2.78/17 16}
Nf8 {1.12/14 21} 23. Be4 {(Re4) 2.68/17 17} Bb7 {1.13/14 22} 24. Nd3 {
(h4) 2.65/16 11} Nd7 {(Red8) 1.31/12 7} 25. Rc1 {(Qc2) 2.87/16 20} Ra6 {
(Rec8) 1.34/13 24} 26. Qe2 {(Qf4) 2.64/15 27} Rd8 {1.20/12 15} 27. Red1 {
2.65/15 11} Rb6 {(a4) 1.45/13 13} 28. Rd2 {(Nc5) 3.01/15 15} b4 {1.25/13 21}
29. axb4 {(a4) 3.03/15 7} axb4 {(Bxb4) 1.55/12 5} 30. Rdc2 {(Nc5) 3.08/16 17}
Rc8 {1.66/12 17} 31. b3 {(Nd2) 3.19/16 13} Ra6 {(Ra8) 1.50/12 12} 32. Qd2 {
3.23/16 13} Qe8 {(Rb6) 1.88/12 18} 33. Nxb4 {3.59/17 25} Raa8 {
(Bxb4) 1.70/13 18} 34. Nd3 {3.49/15 11} Ra6 {(Nb6) 1.91/13 9} 35. Qf4 {
(b4) 3.85/15 19} Nf8 {2.14/12 25} 36. b4 {(Nc5) 3.90/14 13} Rb6 {
(Rb8) 2.28/12 12} 37. Nc5 {(Nd2) 4.01/15 10} Ba8 {2.17/13 8} 38. Qd2 {
(Ra2) 4.13/15 12} Rbb8 {(Rc7) 2.18/12 9} 39. Ra2 {4.01/15 26} Bd8 {
(Bxc5) 2.37/12 10} 40. Bd3 {4.29/14 23} Bc7 {(Qh5) 2.60/13 22} 41. Ra3 {
(Ne4) 4.37/13 10} Kh8 {(Bd8) 2.59/12 11} 42. Na6 {(b5) 4.44/13 9} Rb7 {
(Rb6) 2.72/13 9} 43. Nc5 {(b5) 4.54/14 9} Rbb8 {0.00/20 3} 44. Na6 {
(h4) 4.46/14 8} Rb7 {0.00/20 4} 45. Rc2 {(b5) 4.35/14 12} Bb6 {2.25/13 9} 46.
Nc5 {(Qc1) 4.37/15 8} Rbb8 {(Bxc5) 2.58/13 8} 47. Ne4 {4.53/15 8} Rc7 {
3.01/13 7} 48. Nd6 {5.00/14 7} Qd8 {3.25/13 16} 49. Be4 {4.88/14 7} Kg8 {
(Rd7) 3.36/12 5} 50. Ra6 {(Rca2) 5.12/15 17} Rd7 {3.43/12 13} 51. Bxc6 {
(Rca2) 5.10/16 9} Bxc6 {3.34/12 2} 52. Rxc6 {5.22/16 5} Ng6 {(Bc7) 3.52/13 17}
53. Qa2 {5.54/14 7} Rc7 {(Nf8) 3.94/12 11} 54. Qxe6+ {(Rxc7) 6.94/15 17} Kh7 {
3.49/11 2} 55. Rc4 {(Rxc7) 6.94/14 6} Rxc4 {(Ra8) 3.48/11 10} 56. Nxc4 {
(Qxc4) 7.56/16 8} Ra8 {(Qc7) 3.77/13 6} 57. b5 {7.36/15 6} Rxa6 {3.91/14 4} 58.
bxa6 {7.49/18 8} Ba7 {(Bxd4) 4.75/15 31} 59. Qf5 {(Qf7) 8.81/17 13} Qc7 {
5.58/12 4} 60. Ne3 {9.29/17 7} Qc1+ {5.58/15 6} 61. Nf1 {9.56/18 4} Qf4 {
5.59/15 12} 62. Qd7 {9.70/17 4} Bb8 {(Bb6) 5.59/15 4} 63. Qb7 {(a7) 9.92/16 9}
Qf8 {5.59/15 3} 64. a7 {10.31/17 7} Bxa7 {5.59/16 4} 65. Qxa7 {10.49/17 6} Qf5
{(Qe8) 5.59/14 3} 66. Qb7 {(Qa1) 10.75/16 4} Qe6 {(Nf4) 5.59/13 4} 67. Qe4 {
(Ng3) 12.10/17 4} Kg8 {5.62/14 5} 68. d5 {(Nh4) 12.57/17 4} Qe8 {13.78/16 27}
69. d6 {(e6) 13.03/17 5} Nf8 {(Qe6) 13.99/14 8} 70. Nd4 {15.10/16 5} Nd7 {
14.81/14 2} 71. e6 {(Qd5+) 16.06/17 10} Nf6 {(Qc8) 320.00/15 44} 72. Qc6 {
(Qb7) 19.89/16 8} Qxc6 {(Qb8) 320.00/13 7} 73. Nxc6 {36.50/18 8} Kf8 {
(h5) 320.00/7 0} 74. d7 {#9/14 4} Nxd7 {(Kg8) 320.00/6 0} 75. exd7 {#7/13 0} g6
{(Kf7) 320.00/3 0} 76. d8=Q+ {#6/11 0} Kg7 {0.01/0 0} 77. Qc7+ {(Qe7+) #4/8 0}
Kh8 {(Kf8) 320.00/3 0} 78. Qf7 {(Qe7) #3/5 0} g5 {(h5) 0.01/0 0} 79. Ne5 {
(Ne7) #2/3 0} h5 {(g4) 0.01/0 0} 80. Ng6# {#1/1 0} 1-0
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