Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:40:18 01/29/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 29, 2006 at 19:10:52, Stuart Cracraft wrote: >On January 29, 2006 at 10:45:28, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On January 29, 2006 at 09:52:57, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On January 29, 2006 at 09:38:56, Majd Al-Ansari wrote: >>> >>>>I have a completely different result. I see quite a big difference and many >>>>"won" games are now won instead of drawn. >>> >>> Please be good enough to present those results >>> here. This would be of great interest. >>> Kurt >>> >>>I have checked out quite a few games >>>>and I will say that EGTB's greately improve endgame play for Rybka, and plug a >>>>lot of holes. >>> >>> This is contrary to long experience with other engines >>> where you can almost see no difference regarding overall >>> score after playing some hundred games. >>> Kurt >>> >>> EGTB are especially important if the other side has them. Not >>>>having them will leak a lot of points. Still there is quite a ways to go for >>>>Rybka when endgames are concerned. It still plays some endings horribly. But >>>>the gaps are getting smaller and smaller and I am very interested to see how >>>>Rybka will be with beta 14 (EG knowledge added). >> >> >>One note: >> >>Playing EGTB vs NoEGTB to see if EGTB helps is probably the wrong way to measure >>the experiment. It is more useful to take a known good program _with_ EGTBs, >>and play your favorite engine against it, with your engine not using 'em, then >>playing again with 'em. If the opponent doesn't have 'em, then your not having >>them might not expose the problem as well as making sure your opponent can >>always win those tricky cases and you now have to rely only on your eval to hang >>on... > >Also - I think the sample size has to be MUCH larger than what we are talking. > >A few hundred games is not going to do it. > >Start with a few thousand for the EGTB and work your way up from there. > >Stuart The general rule-of-thumb is that the closer two programs are in skill, the more games you need to really see whether one is better or not....
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