Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: what is wrong with bb4

Author: Eelco de Groot

Date: 10:12:39 02/05/06

Go up one level in this thread


On February 05, 2006 at 11:02:21, Dadi Jonsson wrote:

>On February 05, 2006 at 10:42:31, Eelco de Groot wrote:
>
>>On February 05, 2006 at 07:39:06, Joseph Ciarrochi wrote:
>>
>>>[D] rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/5n2/3p2B1/1b1P4/2N5/PP2PPPP/R2QKBNR w KQkq - 0 6
>>>
>>>
>>>the last black move, bb4, is given a ? by fritz book. Consistent with this view,
>>>chesslab has white winning 50% and losing only 9%. My 1 million data base has
>>>white winning 53% and losing only 11% (n = 90). the average strength of people
>>>who play bb4 is 2274 but their average performance is 2144
>>>
>>>The engines think the position is fine.
>>>
>>>Am i missing something? Why do humans do so badly at a position the engines
>>>think is fine?
>>
>>Hello Joseph,
>>
>>A good theorybook on the French could probably tell much more about this line
>No. You are missing something here. The e-pawn hasn't even moved yet.

Hello Dadi!

Sorry you are right. But the positions are very similar! And the line is is a
reasonable line to investigate if you intend to play the French with Black,
White might try 5.Bg5 in the exchange variation to avoid theory. Bb4 is a
possible answer for Black. How about this line then, no French or Nimzo-Indian
but Queens Gambit declined?

5.Bg5 is played much more often here

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "5/2/2006"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Eelco de Groot"]
[Black "Eelco de Groot"]
[Result "*"]
[Opening "D35 QGD: Exchange, Positional Line"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Bb4 6. Nf3 Nbd7 7. e3 c5 *


Pro Deo Vulcan gives

 [D]r1bqk2r/pp1n1ppp/5n2/2pp2B1/1b1P4/2N1PN2/PP3PPP/R2QKB1R w KQkq c6

 00:00:00   1.00  0.16  8.dxc5 Bxc3 9.bxc3 Nxc5
 00:00:00   1.03  0.27  8.Bb5
 00:00:00   2.00  0.23  8.Bb5 O-O 9.dxc5 Nxc5
 00:00:00   2.01  0.25  8.Bd3 Qa5
 00:00:00   3.00  0.23  8.Bd3 h6 9.Bf4
 00:00:00   4.00  0.18  8.Bd3 h6 9.Bf4 Ne4 10.Bxe4
 00:00:00   4.04  0.19  8.a3 Bxc3 9.bxc3 Qa5 10.Qc2 Rxh7
 00:00:00   4.05  0.22  8.dxc5 Bxc3 9.bxc3 h6 10.Bf4 Nxc5
 00:00:00   4.12  0.32  8.Rc1 c4 9.Be2
 00:00:00   5.00  0.25  8.Rc1 Qa5 9.dxc5 Qxa2 10.Qd2
 00:00:00   6.00  0.24  8.Rc1 Qa5 9.dxc5 Qxa2 10.Qd2 Ne4
 00:00:00   7.00  0.16  8.Rc1 Qa5 9.dxc5 Qxa2 10.Bxf6 Nxf6 11.Qd2 Bxc3
                        12.Rxc3
 00:00:00   7.01  0.20  8.Bb5 a6 9.Bd3 h6 10.Bxf6 Bxc3 11.bxc3 Qxf6
 00:00:00   8.00  0.17  8.Bb5 a6 9.Bd3 Qa5 10.Qd2 h6 11.Bf4 b5
 00:00:01   8.02  0.25  8.Bd3 h6 9.Bf4 cxd4 10.Nxd4 Bxc3 11.bxc3 Ne4
                        12.Bxe4 dxe4
 00:00:01   9.00  0.18  8.Bd3 h6 9.Bf4 Qa5 10.O-O c4 11.Bf5 Bxc3 12.bxc3
 00:00:03  10.00  0.24  8.Bd3 h6 9.Bxf6 Nxf6 10.O-O Bxc3 11.bxc3 c4
                        12.Bc2 Qa5 13.Qd2 Bg4
 00:00:10  11.00  0.11  8.Bd3 c4 9.Bf5 h6 10.Bxf6 Bxc3 11.bxc3 Nxf6
                        12.Bxc8 Qxc8 13.Qa4 Qd7 14.Qb4
 00:00:15  11.01  0.15  8.Rc1 Qa5 9.Nd2 h6 10.Bxf6 Nxf6 11.dxc5 Bd7
                        12.Bd3 Bxc5
 00:00:39  12.00  0.19  8.Rc1 Qa5 9.Nd2 cxd4 10.exd4 O-O 11.a3 Re8
                        12.Be2 Bxc3 13.Rxc3
 00:00:42  12.01  0.21  8.Bd3 c4 9.Bf5 h6 10.Bxf6 Qxf6 11.Bc2 Nb6 12.Ba4
                        Bd7 13.Bxd7 Nxd7 14.O-O Nb6
 00:00:58  12.10  0.25  8.Qc2 h6 9.Bh4 g5
 00:02:24  13.00  0.23  8.Qc2 Qb6 9.Be2 Ne4 10.O-O Bxc3 11.bxc3
 00:05:41  14.00  0.24  8.Qc2 Qa5 9.Bd3 c4 10.Bf5
 00:13:59  15.00  0.27  8.Qc2 Qa5 9.Bd3 c4

Pro Deo bookmove is 8.Bd3, 8.Bb5 has a minus

Or a variation that Shredder plays after 5..Bb4


[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "5/2/2006"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Eelco de Groot"]
[Black "Eelco de Groot"]
[Result "*"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Bb4

[D] rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/5n2/3p2B1/1b1P4/2N5/PP2PPPP/R2QKBNR w KQkq -

6. e3 O-O 7. Bd3 *

Shredder's bookmove is 7..Nbd7 but no games with this move were incorporated in
the books statistics, only three games with 7..h6

[D]rnbq1rk1/ppp2ppp/5n2/3p2B1/1b1P4/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R2QKBNR w KQ -

Eelco



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.