Author: Joseph Ciarrochi
Date: 14:12:45 02/10/06
Go up one level in this thread
Based on the previous games, and the common attacking themes by white, I am not
so sure martin's recommendation are that good, or that much fun.
So i went all the way back to the begining to see where rybka differs in opinion
from martin. Interestingly, Rybka prefers QB6 rather than the standard qc7.
here is the critical position
[D]rn2kb1r/pp3ppp/2p1pn2/q4b2/2BPN3/5N2/PPPB1PPP/R2QK2R b KQkq - 0 8
My database on the qxd scandi (thanks for that hienz) indicates that when qc7 is
played, white won 59 games and black won 19. if qd8, white wins 31 and black
wins only 11. for qb6, white wins 6 and black wins 7. QB6 might be worth
investigating.
What is the idea behind QB6. It is probably not the best place for the queen, as
the n on b8 usually makes its way there, and blacks queen no longer helps
control e5. However, ****if***** white takes a move to defend the B pawn, I
think black has no trouble. The main strength of the scandi is that all blacks
pieces are active. A main disadvantage is that black is behind a couple of
tempos. Thus, if white defends the b pawn, black gets back one tempo in the
opening.(I have inserted two long games feature rybka 13b and fritz9 playing
after white defends the b pawn. Rybka wins both...yaaay a win for the scandi).
But i'll tell you the truth. My main fear (especially in blitz) is that white
says, "screw you. Take the b pawn." Now we have a bonified gambit, and black has
to have nerves of steel. However, if black does not take the B pawn, i can't
imagine much justification for puting the queen on B6. Was it all a bluff?
Here are three versions of the gambit that i find particularly scary (though
being scared does not mean they are bad). I will run these at long time controls
and see what happens.
variation 1 0-0
[D]rn2kb1r/pp3p1p/1qp1pp2/5b2/2BP4/5N2/PPPB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b kq - 0 10
here, white castles into an open g file. I think black should probably not take
the b pawn and maybe play nd7 and castle long. Unfortunately, white can get a
tempo playing a4 and then a5 (disadvantage of black q on b6). still, i think
this is ok for black and rybka has it as even.
variation 2 qe2
[d]rn2kb1r/pp3p1p/1qp1pp2/5b2/2BP4/5N2/PPPBQPPP/R3K2R b KQkq - 0 10
I think you have to take the b pawn here. if you don't, and white castles long,
i don't think your queen is doing much on b6
variation 3 a4 (the berzerker variation)
[D]rn2kb1r/pp3p1p/1qp1pp2/5b2/P1BP4/5N2/1PPB1PPP/R2QK2R b KQkq a3 0 10
Does anybody on this list feel confident taking the b pawn? Maybe rg8 is more
solid.
I'll test these soon. In the meantime, here are a couple of games where white
takes a tempo to defend the b pawn. Black looks fine in this variation.
pgn--------------------------------------------------------------
[Event "scandi qb6"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2006.02.10"]
[Round "1.1"]
[White "Fritz 9"]
[Black "Rybka 1.01 Beta 13b 32-bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Annotator "0.11;0.38"]
[PlyCount "194"]
[EventDate "2006.02.10"]
[EventType "tourn"]
{Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 2.00GHz 1993 MHz W=14.8 ply; 515kN/s; 12,651
TBAs B=16.4 ply; 61kN/s; 126,449 TBAs} 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4
Nf6 5. Nf3 Bf5 6. Bc4 c6 7. Bd2 e6 8. Ne4 Qb6 9. Nxf6+ {
[%eval 11,15] [%emt 0:02:48]} gxf6 {[%eval 38,14] [%emt 0:00:54]} 10. Bb3 {
(a4) [%eval 21,15] [%emt 0:05:28]} Nd7 {[%eval 21,13] [%emt 0:04:22]} 11. Qe2 {
[%eval 28,14] [%emt 0:02:42]} O-O-O {(a5) [%eval 9,14] [%emt 0:04:09]} 12.
O-O-O {[%eval 30,14] [%emt 0:03:21]} h5 {(Bg6) [%eval 11,14] [%emt 0:02:22]}
13. g3 {(Nh4) [%eval 31,14] [%emt 0:07:15]} Bd6 {[%eval 11,14] [%emt 0:04:53]}
14. h3 {(Kb1) [%eval 40,15] [%emt 0:04:48]} Kb8 {
(Bc7) [%eval 12,14] [%emt 0:06:07]} 15. Nh4 {(Kb1) [%eval 35,15] [%emt 0:04:41]
} Bh7 {[%eval 7,12] [%emt 0:00:54]} 16. Ng2 {
(Rhe1) [%eval 39,14] [%emt 0:09:05]} Qc7 {(Bc7) [%eval 0,13] [%emt 0:10:20]}
17. Rhe1 {(Kb1) [%eval 35,13] [%emt 0:02:24]} Nb6 {
(Rc8) [%eval 6,13] [%emt 0:05:08]} 18. Ba5 {[%eval 46,15] [%emt 0:07:05]} Bf5 {
[%eval 7,13] [%emt 0:03:52]} 19. Ne3 {(Kb1) [%eval 38,15] [%emt 0:04:09]} Bg6 {
(Bxh3) [%eval 16,13] [%emt 0:02:31]} 20. h4 {[%eval 57,14] [%emt 0:04:07]} Bf8
{(f5) [%eval 21,12] [%emt 0:04:59]} 21. Kb1 {(c4) [%eval 63,13] [%emt 0:03:05]}
Be4 {(Rg8) [%eval 18,13] [%emt 0:03:44]} 22. Ka1 {
(a3) [%eval 76,14] [%emt 0:04:48]} Bg6 {[%eval 31,13] [%emt 0:03:49]} 23. c3 {
[%eval 82,13] [%emt 0:02:59]} Be7 {(Bh6) [%eval 36,13] [%emt 0:03:30]} 24. Nc4
{(c4) [%eval 95,13] [%emt 0:02:23]} Rd5 {(Rdg8) [%eval 27,15] [%emt 0:03:57]}
25. Rg1 {(Bc2) [%eval 65,15] [%emt 0:07:45]} Rhd8 {[%eval 21,13] [%emt 0:02:44]
} 26. Rh1 {(Bc2) [%eval 67,14] [%emt 0:02:37]} Bh7 {
(R5d7) [%eval 22,14] [%emt 0:03:19]} 27. Rhe1 {[%eval 69,14] [%emt 0:02:02]}
Bg6 {[%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:04:19]} 28. a3 {(Rd2) [%eval 51,14] [%emt 0:02:15]}
Re8 {(Bf8) [%eval 23,13] [%emt 0:02:43]} 29. Ba2 {
(Bc2) [%eval 65,14] [%emt 0:02:39]} Bd8 {[%eval 30,14] [%emt 0:03:56]} 30. Bb1
{(Bxb6) [%eval 55,14] [%emt 0:02:45]} Qd7 {[%eval 32,18] [%emt 0:05:13]} 31.
Bxb6 {[%eval 56,14] [%emt 0:03:35]} Bxb6 {[%eval 32,17] [%emt 0:00:46]} 32.
Nxb6 {(Bxg6) [%eval 48,14] [%emt 0:11:46]} axb6 {[%eval 12,13] [%emt 0:01:18]}
33. Qe3 {(Bxg6) [%eval 49,13] [%emt 0:02:41]} Bxb1 {[%eval 7,14] [%emt 0:03:27]
} 34. Kxb1 {[%eval 41,14] [%emt 0:01:40]} Rf5 {[%eval 13,17] [%emt 0:03:48]}
35. Re2 {(d5) [%eval 36,16] [%emt 0:02:36]} Rh8 {[%eval 0,17] [%emt 0:03:48]}
36. c4 {(Qe4) [%eval 42,15] [%emt 0:01:26]} Qd6 {
(Rd8) [%eval 0,16] [%emt 0:02:46]} 37. Qc3 {(a4) [%eval 37,15] [%emt 0:01:03]}
b5 {[%eval -19,17] [%emt 0:02:38]} 38. b3 {(c5) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:01:05]}
Qxa3 {(Rd8) [%eval -52,17] [%emt 0:04:32]} 39. c5 {[%eval 52,14] [%emt 0:01:05]
} b4 {[%eval -51,19] [%emt 0:04:24]} 40. Qe3 {[%eval 48,16] [%emt 0:01:27]} Qa5
{[%eval -49,18] [%emt 0:03:22]} 41. Rc1 {[%eval 7,16] [%emt 0:04:44]} Qd8 {
[%eval -48,17] [%emt 0:04:20]} 42. Rc4 {[%eval 4,15] [%emt 0:02:50]} Qd5 {
[%eval -46,16] [%emt 0:03:15]} 43. Kb2 {(f4) [%eval 7,15] [%emt 0:02:16]} Rf3 {
[%eval -48,16] [%emt 0:02:42]} 44. Qd2 {[%eval -7,16] [%emt 0:03:16]} Qf5 {
(Rg8) [%eval -50,16] [%emt 0:03:10]} 45. Rxb4 {[%eval -14,16] [%emt 0:03:44]}
Rd8 {[%eval -49,16] [%emt 0:03:42]} 46. Ra4 {
(Qe1) [%eval -16,15] [%emt 0:03:40]} Rd5 {[%eval -52,15] [%emt 0:03:09]} 47.
Rc4 {[%eval -32,15] [%emt 0:02:54]} e5 {[%eval -60,14] [%emt 0:01:01]} 48. Rb4
{[%eval -45,15] [%emt 0:03:05]} Qg4 {(Rd3) [%eval -64,15] [%emt 0:09:00]} 49.
Ka3 {[%eval -35,15] [%emt 0:03:18]} Qd7 {[%eval -67,14] [%emt 0:01:46]} 50. Rc4
{(Qd1) [%eval -33,14] [%emt 0:02:13]} Qf5 {[%eval -88,14] [%emt 0:01:43]} 51.
Qc2 {(Qe1) [%eval -38,15] [%emt 0:02:54]} Qxc2 {[%eval -80,16] [%emt 0:00:47]}
52. Rexc2 {[%eval -44,18] [%emt 0:03:05]} Rxd4 {
(exd4) [%eval -68,22] [%emt 0:02:58]} 53. Rxd4 {[%eval -40,20] [%emt 0:05:14]}
exd4 {[%eval -72,21] [%emt 0:00:41]} 54. Rd2 {[%eval -37,18] [%emt 0:02:19]} d3
{[%eval -82,23] [%emt 0:02:19]} 55. b4 {(Kb4) [%eval -45,19] [%emt 0:03:30]} f5
{[%eval -98,23] [%emt 0:02:14]} 56. Kb3 {[%eval -59,19] [%emt 0:02:57]} f4 {
(Kc7) [%eval -95,23] [%emt 0:04:37]} 57. gxf4 {[%eval -56,17] [%emt 0:02:04]}
Rh3 {(Kc7) [%eval -95,22] [%emt 0:03:58]} 58. f5 {[%eval -71,18] [%emt 0:03:03]
} Kc7 {[%eval -102,22] [%emt 0:02:39]} 59. Kc3 {[%eval -65,17] [%emt 0:01:19]}
Rxh4 {[%eval -107,21] [%emt 0:01:56]} 60. Rxd3 {[%eval -65,16] [%emt 0:01:10]}
Rf4 {[%eval -105,22] [%emt 0:05:24]} 61. Rd6 {[%eval -68,15] [%emt 0:01:31]}
Rxf5 {[%eval -105,21] [%emt 0:01:37]} 62. Rh6 {[%eval -69,16] [%emt 0:01:43]}
Kd7 {(Kd8) [%eval -119,20] [%emt 0:02:04]} 63. Kd4 {
(Kd3) [%eval -69,14] [%emt 0:00:34]} Rf4+ {(Ke7) [%eval -130,18] [%emt 0:00:43]
} 64. Ke3 {[%eval -71,15] [%emt 0:00:43]} Rxb4 {[%eval -133,19] [%emt 0:01:23]}
65. Rxh5 {[%eval -71,14] [%emt 0:00:32]} Ke6 {[%eval -140,19] [%emt 0:01:32]}
66. Rh8 {(f3) [%eval -80,14] [%emt 0:01:05]} Ke5 {
[%eval -144,19] [%emt 0:00:46]} 67. Rf8 {(Rh7) [%eval -88,15] [%emt 0:00:35]}
Rb3+ {[%eval -146,18] [%emt 0:00:12]} 68. Ke2 {
(Kd2) [%eval -95,17] [%emt 0:00:35]} f5 {[%eval -150,20] [%emt 0:00:33]} 69.
Rf7 {[%eval -103,17] [%emt 0:00:56]} Ke4 {[%eval -157,20] [%emt 0:00:35]} 70.
Re7+ {(Rd7) [%eval -112,17] [%emt 0:01:04]} Kd4 {[%eval -152,19] [%emt 0:00:30]
} 71. Rf7 {[%eval -104,15] [%emt 0:00:54]} Rb2+ {
(Kxc5) [%eval -163,20] [%emt 0:00:38]} 72. Ke1 {
(Kf3) [%eval -112,16] [%emt 0:00:26]} Kxc5 {[%eval -179,15] [%emt 0:00:09]} 73.
Rxf5+ {[%eval -116,15] [%emt 0:01:37]} Kd6 {
(Kd4) [%eval -176,16] [%emt 0:00:36]} 74. Rf6+ {[%eval -113,14] [%emt 0:00:50]}
Kd5 {[%eval -173,16] [%emt 0:00:40]} 75. Rf5+ {
(Rf8) [%eval -118,14] [%emt 0:00:31]} Kd4 {(Ke4) [%eval -175,17] [%emt 0:00:55]
} 76. Rf4+ {[%eval -112,13] [%emt 0:00:21]} Ke5 {
(Kd3) [%eval -175,18] [%emt 0:00:40]} 77. Rc4 {[%eval -114,13] [%emt 0:00:22]}
Kd5 {[%eval -178,18] [%emt 0:00:51]} 78. Rh4 {[%eval -129,14] [%emt 0:00:22]}
c5 {(b5) [%eval -185,18] [%emt 0:00:51]} 79. Rh5+ {
[%eval -128,14] [%emt 0:00:40]} Kd4 {[%eval -202,18] [%emt 0:01:16]} 80. Rh4+ {
[%eval -142,14] [%emt 0:00:28]} Kc3 {[%eval -202,17] [%emt 0:00:25]} 81. f4 {
(Rh3+) [%eval -150,13] [%emt 0:00:20]} c4 {(Rb6) [%eval -218,16] [%emt 0:00:28]
} 82. f5 {[%eval -178,13] [%emt 0:00:36]} Rb6 {[%eval -256,16] [%emt 0:00:22]}
83. Ke2 {(Rf4) [%eval -253,14] [%emt 0:00:53]} Kb3 {
[%eval -401,17] [%emt 0:00:23]} 84. Rh7 {[%eval -230,15] [%emt 0:00:23]} c3 {
[%eval -536,17] [%emt 0:00:09]} 85. Rc7 {(f6) [%eval -403,14] [%emt 0:00:16]}
c2 {[%eval -575,16] [%emt 0:00:37]} 86. f6 {[%eval -575,14] [%emt 0:00:31]}
Re6+ {[%eval -575,16] [%emt 0:00:58]} 87. Kd3 {[%eval -575,15] [%emt 0:00:18]}
Rd6+ {[%eval -575,16] [%emt 0:01:40]} 88. Ke4 {[%eval -575,14] [%emt 0:00:31]}
b5 {(Rxf6) [%eval -939,16] [%emt 0:01:00]} 89. f7 {
(Ke5) [%eval -628,14] [%emt 0:00:30]} Rd8 {[%eval -720,12] [%emt 0:00:08]} 90.
Ke5 {(Rc5) [%eval -625,10] [%emt 0:00:17]} Kb2 {[%eval -1110,12] [%emt 0:01:16]
} 91. Ke4 {(Kf6) [%eval -639,10] [%emt 0:00:23]} c1=Q {
[%eval -32750,8] [%emt 0:00:11]} 92. f8=R {
(Rxc1) [%eval -32749,11] [%emt 0:00:48]} Qe1+ {[%eval -32760,4] [%emt 0:00:02]}
93. Kf5 {[%eval -32761,6] [%emt 0:00:01]} Rxf8+ {
[%eval -32761,4] [%emt 0:00:00]} 94. Rf7 {[%eval -32762,5] [%emt 0:00:00]}
Rxf7+ {[%eval -32762,4] [%emt 0:00:00]} 95. Kg6 {
[%eval -32763,4] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qe7 {(Qe6+) [%eval -32764,4] [%emt 0:00:00]}
96. Kh6 {(Kh5) [%eval -32765,4] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg7 {
[%eval -32765,4] [%emt 0:00:00]} 97. Kh5 {[%eval -32766,2] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qg5#
{[%eval -32766,4] [%emt 0:00:00]} 0-1
[Event "scandi qb6"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2006.02.11"]
[Round "2.1"]
[White "Rybka 1.01 Beta 13b 32-bit"]
[Black "Fritz 9"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Annotator "0.21;0.11"]
[PlyCount "81"]
[EventDate "2006.02.10"]
[EventType "tourn"]
{Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 2.00GHz 1993 MHz W=14.9 ply; 31kN/s B=14.4
ply; 540kN/s} 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Bf5 6. Bc4 c6
7. Bd2 e6 8. Ne4 Qb6 9. Nxf6+ {[%eval 21,12] [%emt 0:02:32]} gxf6 {
[%eval 11,15] [%emt 0:06:29]} 10. a4 {(Bb3) [%eval 35,13] [%emt 0:02:44]} Qxb2
{(Na6) [%eval -22,15] [%emt 0:03:32]} 11. Ra2 {
(Bb3) [%eval 27,17] [%emt 0:06:14]} Qb6 {[%eval -38,15] [%emt 0:03:03]} 12. a5
{(0-0) [%eval 24,16] [%emt 0:03:06]} Qc7 {[%eval -35,14] [%emt 0:04:04]} 13.
Qe2 {[%eval 22,15] [%emt 0:06:05]} Bd6 {(Bg4) [%eval -24,14] [%emt 0:04:10]}
14. O-O {(h3) [%eval 19,15] [%emt 0:05:01]} Nd7 {
(Bg6) [%eval 5,14] [%emt 0:03:09]} 15. Nh4 {[%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:03:38]} Bg6 {
[%eval -8,15] [%emt 0:12:49]} 16. g3 {(f4) [%eval 30,14] [%emt 0:02:44]} O-O {
[%eval -23,13] [%emt 0:02:45]} 17. Nxg6 {(Rb1) [%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:03:20]}
hxg6 {[%eval -47,15] [%emt 0:04:16]} 18. h4 {(Bh6) [%eval 18,15] [%emt 0:05:10]
} Kg7 {(c5) [%eval -77,15] [%emt 0:12:49]} 19. h5 {[%eval 12,14] [%emt 0:03:40]
} gxh5 {[%eval -88,15] [%emt 0:04:37]} 20. Qxh5 {
(a6) [%eval 0,14] [%emt 0:02:55]} Rh8 {[%eval -100,15] [%emt 0:03:54]} 21. Qg4+
{[%eval -17,13] [%emt 0:01:23]} Kf8 {[%eval -100,14] [%emt 0:07:21]} 22. Rb2 {
(Qf3) [%eval -20,13] [%emt 0:06:39]} f5 {[%eval -95,14] [%emt 0:02:48]} 23. Qg5
{(Qf3) [%eval -19,15] [%emt 0:10:16]} b5 {(Be7) [%eval -74,14] [%emt 0:08:04]}
24. Be2 {[%eval -32,15] [%emt 0:05:26]} a6 {(Be7) [%eval -70,12] [%emt 0:01:31]
} 25. c4 {(Kg2) [%eval 0,12] [%emt 0:02:26]} bxc4 {
(c5) [%eval -79,12] [%emt 0:01:40]} 26. Bxc4 {
(Rc2) [%eval 22,13] [%emt 0:02:24]} c5 {[%eval -105,13] [%emt 0:01:51]} 27. d5
{[%eval 10,13] [%emt 0:02:44]} Ne5 {(Be5) [%eval -73,14] [%emt 0:03:02]} 28.
Be2 {[%eval 44,12] [%emt 0:01:03]} Be7 {[%eval -48,13] [%emt 0:02:16]} 29. Qf4
{[%eval 31,13] [%emt 0:02:06]} exd5 {(Rd8) [%eval -30,13] [%emt 0:03:20]} 30.
Rfb1 {[%eval 68,14] [%emt 0:05:27]} d4 {(f6) [%eval -21,13] [%emt 0:02:04]} 31.
Rb6 {[%eval 109,13] [%emt 0:02:12]} f6 {(Bd8) [%eval 112,14] [%emt 0:08:34]}
32. Qxf5 {[%eval 133,12] [%emt 0:02:08]} Qd8 {[%eval 77,12] [%emt 0:02:57]} 33.
Bf1 {[%eval 216,12] [%emt 0:02:12]} Qd7 {[%eval 200,12] [%emt 0:01:29]} 34. Re6
{[%eval 400,14] [%emt 0:02:59]} Rc8 {(Rh5) [%eval 299,13] [%emt 0:01:39]} 35.
Rbb6 {(Bg2) [%eval 479,14] [%emt 0:05:29]} Qd5 {
(Rd8) [%eval 296,13] [%emt 0:00:42]} 36. Bg2 {[%eval 579,13] [%emt 0:02:28]}
Nf3+ {[%eval 536,16] [%emt 0:00:52]} 37. Qxf3 {[%eval 585,17] [%emt 0:03:30]}
Qxf3 {[%eval 553,14] [%emt 0:01:01]} 38. Bxf3 {[%eval 585,17] [%emt 0:02:45]}
c4 {[%eval 539,13] [%emt 0:00:52]} 39. Rb7 {[%eval 585,17] [%emt 0:04:36]} c3 {
[%eval 572,15] [%emt 0:01:29]} 40. Rexe7 {[%eval 840,16] [%emt 0:04:36]} cxd2 {
[%eval 562,12] [%emt 0:00:21]} 41. Rf7+ {adjud. [%eval 927,16] [%emt 0:01:59]}
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