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Subject: Re: 16 x 16 ???

Author: Duncan Roberts

Date: 12:08:11 02/13/06

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On February 12, 2006 at 15:09:41, Marc Bourzutschky wrote:

>On February 12, 2006 at 12:45:38, Duncan Roberts wrote:
>
>>On February 12, 2006 at 12:04:45, Marc Bourzutschky wrote:
>>
>>>On February 11, 2006 at 04:53:29, h.g.muller wrote:
>>>
>>>>Interesting. I did a lot of 4- and 5-men TBs including fairy pieces (mainly
>>>>leapers) in a systematic effort to assign an accurate end-game value to pieces
>>>>(in absense of pawns). It never occurred to me to use non-standard board-size,
>>>>though. I guess the 10x8 board is of practical interest, due to
>>>>Capablanca/Gothic Chess.
>>>>
>>>>Is your (or Marc's)work published somewhere?
>>>
>>>Vaclav Kotesovec has done a lot of work on fairy pieces, including leapers on
>>>generalized boards:
>>>
>>>http://web.telecom.cz/Vaclav.kotesovec/
>>>
>>>John Beasley and I looked at Q vs. R endings on generalized boards, because the
>>>lack of an obvious systematic winning procedure on 8x8 suggested o John it may
>>>not be a general win on larger boards.  Indeed, it is only a general win on
>>>boards up to 15x15, but on 16x16 it is in general a draw. John had also thought
>>>it would be a draw on 8x12 (which is used in a variant called "Modern Courier
>>>Chess") but the queen still wins there. This was published in the "British
>>>Endgame Study News" in June and September 2004.
>>>
>>>Regarding leapers, John Beasley, Noam Elkies, and I have studied "doublet
>>>leapers", which are pieces that combine two leapers into one piece.  There is
>>>only a small number of doublet leapers that can force mate, and only on board up
>>>to 16x16.  This was published in "Variant Chess" February 2005.
>>>
>>>We have also looked at "triplet leapers", combining three leapers into one.
>>>Here one can construct cases that win on an arbitrarily large board.  However,
>>>it is only a finite set, and there are some triplets for which we are not sure
>>>whether they are a general win or not.  I have run tablebases on up to 90x90 for
>>>some of these.
>>>
>>>-Marc
>>
>>what is your opinion on this post ?
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?485845
>>
>>duncn
>
>As someone else posted, Eiko Bleicher's "freezer" basically moves in that
>direction.  The vast majority of real life positions can be analyzed without
>going to the trouble of traditional full information tablebases.  However, there
>always seem to remain a small number of positions where this will not work.
>Most of these exceptional positions are endings that are draws in general, but
>have some positions that are complicated wins.  krnknn and I believe krrnkrr
>belong to this category.
>
>-Marc

as they complement each other do you have any interest in persuing both at the
same time ?

duncan



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