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Subject: Re: [Moderation] Enough is enough

Author: stuart taylor

Date: 16:04:37 02/13/06

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On February 13, 2006 at 09:25:36, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On February 13, 2006 at 08:29:55, stuart taylor wrote:
>
>>On February 12, 2006 at 22:05:16, Roger Brown wrote:
>>
>>>On February 12, 2006 at 21:45:51, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 12, 2006 at 13:32:33, Peter Skinner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>This is nothing more than a flagrant attempt in polling users about possible
>>>>>commercial payment possibilities for your program, and as such I am removing the
>>>>>thread.
>>>>>
>>>>>As per the charter:
>>>>>
>>>>>Once a member gains access to the message board, he may read all messages and
>>>>>post new or response messages with the proviso that these new or response
>>>>>messages:
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. Are, within reason, on the topic of computer chess
>>>>>   2. Are not abusive in nature
>>>>>   3. Do not contain personal and/or libelous attacks on others
>>>>>   4. Are not flagrant commercial exhortations
>>>>>   5. Are not of questionable legal status.
>>>>>
>>>>>What about rule #4 do you not understand?
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter
>>>>
>>>>You have certainly violated 2 and 3 straight off imo.
>>>>
>>>>A person with Vasiks standing stands to be very insulted by your insensitive
>>>>behavior. I can't emphasize this strongly enough.
>>>>OBVIOUSLY this should have been done in a different way, and it would have been
>>>>no problem to have done so.
>>>>(Actually, the mods here also threw Kasparov himself packing, though probably
>>>>not realizing it was him. And even if they HAD, I suppose who cares!).
>>>>S.Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello Stuart,
>>>
>>>Please point out where Peter was abusive or where he made personal attacks.  I
>>>respect the fact that it is your opinion but I am sincerely hoping that your
>>>opinion is supported by some facts.
>>>
>>>I am also bemused by the reference to Vas' standing.  Precisely what does that
>>>mean?  I am no programmer so am I someone who would not be insulted if Peter
>>>offered insulting or libellious statements to me?
>>>
>>>I would strongly suggest that if there is a point of principle to be made that
>>>you do not make it taking into account Vas' specific standing in your eyes.
>>>That would be the introduction of the thin edge of the wedge.
>>>
>>>Where there is a violation of the charter we have the moderators to enforce the
>>>rules.
>>>
>>>Your reference to Kasparov being sent packing is interesting.  I would like to
>>>hear more about it as I would certainly care if that had been done *and* you had
>>>proof to support your claim.
>>>
>>>Actually, I cannot understand the joining of the two events in your post but I
>>>am a simple man.
>>
>>I thought it was another example of carelesness in evaluating a person.
>>
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>I take your points about the process but I do not believe that anyone, least of
>>>all myself (or anyone - programmer of the mightiest engine this decade or not
>>>:-)    )is above the rules.
>>>
>>>When you say that it is OBVIOUS that it could have been done differently I
>>>wonder why you think so?
>>>
>>>In case there are persons who are wondering, I think Vas is an incredible
>>>programmer and he has written a first class engine and released it as a freely
>>>available beta.  I would have sold it from day one.
>>>
>>>There is a need to consider the facts and not allow emotions or respect for
>>>anyone to cloud judgement.
>>>
>>>Of course, that is my opinion.
>>>
>>>Later.
>>
>>No one is above the law, "but the shame caused to a person goes according to the
>>person who shames him, and according to the one being shamed", this is surely a
>>general truth, but known to me especially as it is a well known principle in the
>>Jewish judicial system, in estimating how much, and if, a person has been
>>maligned.
>>Vasik, realizes he has made history, and he believes that everyone (in ccc)
>>loves him, and that he is doing a service to the forum by posting often. Atleast
>>It stands to reason that he might feel he is one of the most welcome members.
>>And to suddenly treat him out of the blue like he is the vermin of society seems
>>a little too harsh.
>
>It's a bit harsh to twist historical facts this way, yes. This was NOT out of
>the blue. It was already discussed last year. Then people declared their
>interest and so the debate disappeared. But this message now about calling for a
>feedback on his subscription plans was too much or enough. Why should that be
>debated in CCC? When Vas has his own forum specifically for all Rybka
>customers...! Why is it so difficult to understand for some people here? Bias in
>the perception? Dont know.
>
>
>>It hurts him much more than it would an average poster.
>>He also didn't fully realize he was doing wrong, obviously.
>
>Let's call it chuzpe.
>
>
>>Still I can understand the problem of allowing it like this, because other
>>programmers might be feeling they are being usurped and losing their own sales
>>too. That's OK as long as it is not the fault of the forum morals.
>>So obviously, it should have been done with more diplomacy and not openly.
>>S.Taylor
>
>
>With so many customers here among the members Vas has earned the right to get an
>open response right away. His advertising was also very frank and direct. So
>where is the problem? What would the customers have said if that would have been
>deleted without public explanation and debate? Read for instance SteveB, he made
>a valid point towards those who openly declared that they didnt care about this
>forum or the whereabouts of the host a damned sh__. But at the same time these
>interesting role models declare that they are morally deeply hurt by seeing how
>certain postings have been deleted - of the feedback for Vasik. If that's not
>hypocrisy?

Yes, this is all being discussed. Also, it might be true that it was better done
discreetly, and I can think of other arguments for both sides too.
But another thing might be that I was just enjoying it all, and I had also
posted a nice reply to Vasik which was also deleted, and for me it was like
losing my meal (fell on the sand, or something) which I just was in the middle
enjoying! A bit uncomfortable! So I lashed out too!
I was also afraid of losing future posts from Vasik, and other related
interesting news and views about what's going on.
Let's call it indigestion!
S.Taylor



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