Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 20:06:08 02/13/06
Go up one level in this thread
On February 12, 2006 at 02:36:24, Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>Hi,
>
> People might hate posts like this, and it might even look like I am trying to
>show off ... but I dont have the processing power , the 'top of the line'
>engines or the chess knowledge/expierence myself to understand or do a detailed
>analysis of this game.
>So any help would be nice.
>
>Specifically , I want to find the blunders on each side - particularly opening
>related (more interested in my engine's ;-) ) and any comments in general about
>what could be improved.
>
>Left the game running overnight : ponder on , on a 4200 dual core box , no book
>, each engine 1 thread/process , 128 MB hash (I set 'hash 128M' , but crafty
>uses only 98M).
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Regards,
>Mridul
>
>[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
>[Site "OASIS"]
>[Date "2006.02.12"]
>[Round "-"]
>[White "pmess ver 0.8.1a by Mridul M"]
>[Black "Crafty-19.20 BH"]
>[Result "1-0"]
>[TimeControl "40/7200"]
>[Annotator "1. +0.19 1... +0.27"]
>
>1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bg5 Ne4 4. Nxe4 dxe4 5. e3 Nd7 6. f3 c6 7. c3 h6 8.
>Bh4 g5 9. Bg3 Nf6 10. fxe4 Nxe4 11. Be5 Nf6 12. Bd3 h5 13. Nf3 Bh6 14. Nd2
>g4 15. Qe2 Rf8 16. O-O h4 17. Rae1 Nd5 18. Qf2 h3 19. Nb3 hxg2 20. Kxg2 Be6
>21. Nc5 Qc8 22. Qh4 Nxe3+ 23. Kg1 Nxf1 24. Qxh6 g3 25. hxg3 Nd2 26. Qxd2 a5
>27. Bg7 Rg8 28. Qh6 Kd8 29. Rxe6 fxe6 30. Be5 Ra6 31. Nxe6+ Kd7 32. Qh3 Ke8
>33. Bf5
>{Black resigns} 1-0
Hello Mridul, with 1800 I believe you have a much higher rating than I have and
also a much faster computer, but here are a few small opening comments
nevertheless, by Shredder and Pro Deo, mainly addressing the question where
Crafty may have gone wrong in some of the opening moves. But with your fast
computer you can also let Crafty annotate the whole game overnight, see if it
still plays the same opening moves or if it agrees with your own engine's moves!
[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "OASIS"]
[Date "2006.02.12"]
[Round "-"]
[White "pmess ver 0.8.1a by Mridul M"]
[Black "Crafty-19.20 BH"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/7200"]
[Annotator "1. +0.19 1... +0.27"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bg5
[D] rnbqkb1r/ppp1pppp/5n2/3p2B1/3P4/2N5/PPP1PPPP/R2QKBNR b KQkq -
3...Ne4
{3..d5 is the only move in Pro Deo's book, the big Shredder book has more
options, including this move, but only as an low f choice. 3..Ne4 is rare and it
is a bit curious that Crafty should play this. It doesn't look like an opening
that suits computers very well. If the computers did not use any opening book it
becomes a bit more understandable. Why do you test without some solid booklines,
maybe just for the opponent for instance? Programs often mishandle the openings
on their own and for instance Robert Hyatt has often said he prefers matches
with Crafty using book and ponder on if possible as that is how he is testing
Crafty also. Without using even some fixed opening like in Nunn-type matches it
becomes a bit of a lottery.. But it has to be said your own program handled this
opening well and if your aim is to play well from the startposition on, I think
that is a very commendable goal! Just try to analyse any opening with any
program you like and it becomes clear that this is a very neglected area by
programmers, no need to do much about it because it is covered by opening books
but for the users it would make a great deal of difference if computers played
better in strategic opening positions!
4..Nxe4 dxe4 now is logical, then instead of 5.e3 Shredder only plays 5.Qd2 from
book.
On his own Pro Deo Vulcan would play 3..h6
00:00:00 1.00 -0.54 3..e5 4.Bxf6 gxf6 5.dxe5
00:00:00 1.01 -0.14 3..Nbd7
00:00:00 1.03 0.03 3..Bg4
00:00:00 1.04 0.05 3..Bf5
00:00:00 1.05 0.14 3..Ne4
00:00:00 2.00 -0.18 3..Ne4 4.Nxe4 dxe4
00:00:00 2.02 -0.09 3..Bg4 4.Nf3
00:00:00 2.12 -0.04 3..h6 4.Bf4
00:00:00 3.00 0.09 3..h6 4.Bxf6 exf6 5.e4 dxe4
00:00:00 4.00 -0.09 3..h6 4.Bf4 Bg4 5.Nf3
00:00:00 5.00 0.08 3..h6 4.Bf4 g5 5.Be5 Bg7
00:00:00 6.00 -0.11 3..h6 4.Bf4 e6 5.e3 Bb4 6.Bd3
00:00:00 7.00 -0.06 3..h6 4.Bf4 g5 5.Be5 Bg7 6.e3 Bg4
00:00:00 8.00 -0.08 3..h6 4.Bf4 Bf5 5.Nb5 Na6 6.e3 c6 7.Nc3
00:00:00 8.02 -0.03 3..Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.e4 dxe4 6.Ne5 h6 7.Bf4
00:00:00 9.00 0.00 3..Bf5 4.f3 Nc6 5.e4 dxe4 6.Bxf6 exf6 7.fxe4
Bd7
00:00:01 10.00 -0.05 3..Bf5 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Bxd3 6.Qxd3 c6 7.Bxf6
Qxf6 8.Nf3
00:00:01 10.01 -0.04 3..h6 4.Bf4 Bg4 5.Nb5 Na6 6.h3 Bh5 7.Nf3 Ne4
00:00:04 11.00 0.00 3..h6 4.Bh4 Bf5 5.f3 Nc6 6.e4 dxe4 7.Bxf6 exf6
8.fxe4 Qe7 9.Qd3
00:00:07 12.00 0.03 3..h6 4.Bh4 Bf5 5.e3 e6 6.Bd3 Bb4 7.a3 Be7
8.Bxf5 exf5 9.Bg3
00:00:17 13.00 0.01 3..h6 4.Bh4 Bf5 5.e3 e6 6.Bd3 Bxd3 7.cxd3 Nbd7
8.Nf3 Be7 9.Bg3 c5
00:00:57 14.00 -0.04 3..h6 4.Bf4 Bg4 5.Nf3 e6 6.Ne5 Bf5 7.Nb5 Bd6
8.e3 a6 9.Nxd6 cxd6 10.Nf3
00:02:32 15.00 -0.06 3..h6 4.Bh4 Bf5 5.e3 e6 6.Bd3 Bxd3 7.cxd3
c5 8.Bxf6 gxf6
00:06:58 16.00 -0.07 3..h6 4.Bf4 Bg4 5.Nf3 e6 6.e4 dxe4 7.Bb5
00:23:06 17.00 -0.03 3..h6 4.Bf4 Bg4 5.Nf3 e6 6.h3 Bf5 7.Bg3
4. Nxe4 dxe4 5. e3 Nd7 6. f3 c6 7. c3 h6 8.
Bh4 g5 9. Bg3 Nf6 10. fxe4 Nxe4 11. Be5 Nf6 12. Bd3
[D]r1bqkb1r/pp2pp2/2p2n1p/4B1p1/3P4/2PBP3/PP4PP/R2QK1NR b KQkq -
12...h5
I'm not very impressed by this move.
After 12...h5 Pro Deo Vulcan's eval drops almost below minus one. Did Crafty not
also play a few aggressive pawn-moves like this in Reykyavik? With two bishops
and Queen aimed at its Kingside, Black should maybe be more careful with its
Kingside pawnstructure, in my humble 1300 opinion. Then again Shredder also does
not completely discard the move in three best mode, see below.
Pro Deo Vulcan plays 12...Bg7
r1bqkb1r/pp2pp2/2p2n1p/4B1p1/3P4/2PBP3/PP4PP/R2QK1NR b KQkq -
00:00:00 1.00 -0.42 12..Bg7
00:00:00 2.00 -0.61 12..Bg7 13.e4
00:00:00 3.00 -0.51 12..Bg7 13.Qb3 b5
00:00:00 4.00 -0.70 12..Bg7 13.Qb3 b6 14.e4
00:00:00 4.13 -0.59 12..Be6 13.Ne2 Bg7 14.O-O
00:00:00 5.00 -0.48 12..Be6 13.e4 Bg7 14.Ne2 Bg4
00:00:00 6.00 -0.64 12..Be6 13.h4 Rg8 14.e4 Nd7 15.Nf3
00:00:00 6.01 -0.59 12..Bg7 13.e4 Be6 14.Ne2 Qb6 15.b3
00:00:00 7.00 -0.51 12..Bg7 13.e4 Be6 14.Ne2 Qb6 15.b3 Bg4
00:00:00 8.00 -0.59 12..Bg7 13.e4 Be6 14.Ne2 Rg8 15.O-O Ng4 16.Bg3
00:00:01 8.08 -0.54 12..Rg8 13.h3 Bg7 14.e4 Be6 15.Nf3 g4 16.hxg4
Nxg4
00:00:02 9.00 -0.64 12..Rg8 13.Bxf6 exf6 14.e4 Be6 15.Ne2 Qd6
16.O-O Bg4
00:00:03 9.01 -0.57 12..Bg7 13.Nf3 Rg8 14.O-O Nd5 15.Qc1 g4 16.Bxg7
Rxg7
00:00:05 10.00 -0.61 12..Bg7 13.e4 Qb6 14.Qc2 Rg8 15.Nf3 Ng4 16.Bg3
00:00:10 10.01 -0.55 12..Rg8 13.Bxf6 exf6 14.e4 Qb6 15.b3 Be6 16.h4
Rd8
00:00:14 11.00 -0.67 12..Rg8 13.Bxf6 exf6 14.e4 Be6 15.Nf3 Qb6
16.b3 Qa5 17.Qc2
00:00:17 11.01 -0.63 12..Bg7 13.e4 Qb6 14.Qb3 Be6 15.Qa3 Rc8 16.h4
g4
00:00:41 12.00 -0.61 12..Bg7 13.h4 gxh4 14.Rxh4 Qb6 15.Qb3 Rg8
16.Qxb6 axb6 17.e4 Ng4 18.b3
00:00:53 12.01 -0.59 12..Rg8 13.Bxf6 exf6 14.Ne2 Bd6 15.Ng3 Bxg3
00:01:23 13.00 -0.68 12..Rg8 13.Bxf6 exf6 14.Ne2 Bg4 15.h3 Be6
16.e4 Qb6 17.b3 Bd6 18.O-O
00:01:37 13.01 -0.63 12..Bg7 13.h4 gxh4 14.Rxh4 Qb6 15.b3 Bd7 16.e4
c5
00:03:31 14.00 -0.70 12..Bg7 13.Nf3 Rg8 14.Qe2 Qb6
00:10:29 15.00 -0.70 12..Bg7 13.Nf3 Qb6 14.Qb1 Be6 15.O-O
00:22:20 16.00 -0.73 12..Bg7 13.Nf3 Qb6 14.Qb1 Be6 15.a4
01:41:17 17.00 -0.77 12..Bg7 13.Nf3 Bg4 14.Qb3 Bxf3 15.gxf3 Qb6
16.Qxb6
Shredder three best moves here, h5 is third best for a while but then drops
again, comes u[p again, Shredder is here already more pessimistic than Pro Deo
Vulcan, about 0.6 lower for Black, a little less difference after 12...h5 but
then Pro Deo Vulcan also goes towards minus one:
20 50:20 -1.37 12...Tg8 13.Pf3 Db6 14.Dd2 (686.810.259) 227
20 65:12 -1.38 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Tg8 14.De2 Lg7 15.O-O Db6 16.b4 g4 17.Ph4 g3
18.Lxg3 Lg4 19.Dc2 Pd5 (872.316.581) 222
20 69:57 -1.42 12...h5 13.Pf3 g4 14.Pd2 Lh6 15.O-O h4 16.De2 g3 17.Pe4 Lg7
18.Lxf6 gxh2+ 19.Kh1 (930.616.158) 221
-----
20 50:20 -1.37 12...Tg8 13.Pf3 Db6 14.Dd2 (686.810.259) 227
20 65:12 -1.38 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Tg8 14.De2 Lg7 15.O-O Db6 16.b4 g4 17.Ph4 g3
18.Lxg3 Lg4 19.Dc2 Pd5 (872.316.581) 222
20 71:31 -1.41++ 12...Db6 (950.729.353) 221
-----
20 50:20 -1.37 12...Tg8 13.Pf3 Db6 14.Dd2 (686.810.259) 227
20 65:12 -1.38 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Tg8 14.De2 Lg7 15.O-O Db6 16.b4 g4 17.Ph4 g3
18.Lxg3 Lg4 19.Dc2 Pd5 (872.316.581) 222
20 76:34 -1.40 12...Db6 13.Dd2 Le6 14.Pf3 Lg7 15.O-O g4 16.Ph4 Ph5 17.Pg6
(1.013.445.169) 220
-----
21 119:35 -1.43 12...Tg8 13.Pf3 Le6 14.De2 h5 15.O-O h4 16.e4 (1.580.635.319)
220
LT: 20 65:12 -1.38 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Tg8 14.De2 Lg7 15.O-O Db6 16.b4 g4 17.Ph4
g3 18.Lxg3 Lg4 19.Dc2 Pd5 (872.316.581) 222
LT: 20 76:34 -1.40 12...Db6 13.Dd2 Le6 14.Pf3 Lg7 15.O-O g4 16.Ph4 Ph5 17.Pg6
(1.013.445.169) 220
-----
21 125:29 -1.42 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Lg7 14.O-O Db6 15.De2 (1.728.793.437) 229
21 119:35 -1.43 12...Tg8 13.Pf3 Le6 14.De2 h5 15.O-O h4 16.e4 (1.580.635.319)
220
LT: 20 76:34 -1.40 12...Db6 13.Dd2 Le6 14.Pf3 Lg7 15.O-O g4 16.Ph4 Ph5 17.Pg6
(1.013.445.169) 220
-----
21 144:06 -1.32 12...Db6 13.Dd2 Lg4 14.Pe2 h5 15.O-O h4 16.c4 Lg7 17.Pc3 h3
18.g3 Db4 19.Dc2 Da5 (1.934.754.193) 223
21 125:29 -1.42 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Lg7 14.O-O Db6 15.De2 (1.728.793.437) 229
21 119:35 -1.43 12...Tg8 13.Pf3 Le6 14.De2 h5 15.O-O h4 16.e4 (1.580.635.319)
220
-----
21 144:06 -1.32 12...Db6 13.Dd2 Lg4 14.Pe2 h5 15.O-O h4 16.c4 Lg7 17.Pc3 h3
18.g3 Db4 19.Dc2 Da5 (1.934.754.193) 223
21 125:29 -1.42 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Lg7 14.O-O Db6 15.De2 (1.728.793.437) 229
21 148:57 -1.42++ 12...h5 (1.993.721.305) 223
-----
21 144:06 -1.32 12...Db6 13.Dd2 Lg4 14.Pe2 h5 15.O-O h4 16.c4 Lg7 17.Pc3 h3
18.g3 Db4 19.Dc2 Da5 (1.934.754.193) 223
21 125:29 -1.42 12...Le6 13.Pf3 Lg7 14.O-O Db6 15.De2 (1.728.793.437) 229
21 156:31 -1.42 12...h5 13.Pf3 g4 14.Pd2 Lh6 15.O-O Lxe3+ 16.Kh1 Le6 17.De2
(2.083.652.072) 221
best move: Qd8-b6 time: 174:03.156 min n/s: 220.378 CPU 51.6% n/s(1CPU):
427.089 nodes: 2.301.447.716
(Shredder with Dutch notation, Dame=Queen, Toren=Rook, Paard=Knight,
Loper=Bishop)
13. Nf3
[D] r1bqkb1r/pp2pp2/2p2n2/4B1pp/3P4/2PBPN2/PP4PP/R2QK2R b KQkq -
13...Bh6
Pro Deo Vulcan {9k17pr}:
00:00:00 1.00 -1.47 13..Bg7 14.Nxg5
00:00:00 1.02 -0.75 13..Bg4
00:00:00 2.00 -1.18 13..Bg4 14.Qb3
00:00:00 2.25 -1.05 13..g4 14.Ng5
00:00:00 3.00 -0.87 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6
00:00:00 4.00 -0.87 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.e4
00:00:00 5.00 -0.84 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Bxf6 exf6 16.e4
00:00:00 6.00 -0.84 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.e4 Be6 16.Rf1
00:00:00 7.00 -0.95 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Qe2 Qb6 16.Ne4
00:00:00 8.00 -1.11 13..g4 14.Nd2 Be6 15.O-O Qb6 16.b3 Bg7 17.Nc4
00:00:01 9.00 -1.02 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Qe2 Be6 16.O-O h4 17.Ne4
Bg7
00:00:03 10.00 -0.98 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bg7 15.O-O Be6 16.a4 h4 17.Ne4
a5
00:00:08 11.00 -1.00 13..g4 14.Nd2 h4 15.Ne4 h3 16.g3 Bg7 17.O-O
Be6 18.c4 Nxe4 19.Bxg7
00:00:22 12.00 -0.97 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bg7 15.O-O Be6 16.c4 h4 17.Qc2
h3 18.Ne4 hxg2 19.Qxg2 Rh3 20.Nc5
00:00:51 13.00 -0.98 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Qe2 Rg8 16.c4 Qb6 17.O-O
Qxb2 18.a4 g3 19.Bxg3 Be6
00:02:00 14.00 -0.97 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Qe2 Rg8 16.O-O h4 17.a4
Be6 18.Bxf6 exf6 19.Ne4 f5 20.Nc5
00:06:00 15.00 -0.99 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Qe2 Rg8 16.O-O h4 17.Bxf6
exf6 18.Bh7 Rh8 19.Ne4 Bg5 20.Bf5
00:22:04 16.00 -0.96 13..g4 14.Nd2 Bh6 15.Ne4 O-O 16.Ng3 Bxe3 17.Qe2
00:56:41 17.00 -0.98 13..g4 14.Nh4
14. Nd2 g4 15. Qe2 Rf8 16. O-O h4 17. Rae1 Nd5 18. Qf2 h3 19. Nb3 hxg2 20. Kxg2
Be6
21. Nc5 Qc8 22. Qh4 Nxe3+ 23. Kg1 Nxf1 24. Qxh6 g3 25. hxg3 Nd2 26. Qxd2 a5
27. Bg7 Rg8 28. Qh6 Kd8 29. Rxe6 fxe6 30. Be5 Ra6 31. Nxe6+ Kd7 32. Qh3 Ke8
33. Bf5
{Black resigns} 1-0
Eelco
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