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Subject: Re: The Rybka Flamewar & question for Vasik

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 15:34:40 02/16/06

Go up one level in this thread


On February 16, 2006 at 17:58:27, Chessfun wrote:

>On February 16, 2006 at 09:22:43, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2006 at 06:21:57, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>
>>>On February 15, 2006 at 10:20:18, Zappa wrote:
>>>
>>>>So I dropped by to see how my old buddies in CCC were doing, and found a massive
>>>>flamewar :)  This is far more to my liking than dry test results, so I thought
>>>>I'd weigh in with a few comments.
>>>>
>>>>The majority of members in CCC seem to be unable to think rationally about
>>>>Rybka.  I saw the following argument about 500X: "Vasik is violating the
>>>>charter" "But Rybka is so awesome".  Clearly this is complete idiocy.  The law
>>>>is intended to apply to everyone equally, regardless of whether or not they have
>>>>an awesome engine.
>>>>
>>>>I left (and this is not a coming back post) because I didn't like reading tons
>>>>of testing posts.  However, the majority of people here appear to like it here.
>>>>  From what I read in the flamewar Skinner seems correct that Vasik violated the
>>>>charter, but perhaps rather than crucifying Vasik (or Skinner), the charter
>>>>should be amended so the club serves the interest of the majority.  It really
>>>>seems like the majority of people don't mind his "commerical posts" - so what's
>>>>the problem?
>>>>
>>>>I also read Enrico's post on Rybka's nodecount.  Vasik claimed it was the result
>>>>of a bug.  I read that as "my node count obfuscation algorithm has a bug and
>>>>will be fixed posthaste".  If you look at Enrico's numbers, its obvious that
>>>>Rybka is really searching at 2-3M+ nps on big hardware.
>>>>
>>>>So, Vasik, please tell me: why would you would want to hide the node count of
>>>>Rybka?
>>>>
>>>>anthony
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting post.  And very telling.  Demands some kind of reply, at least from
>>>a curious member of the CCC (but surely not from Vasik, as the question you ask
>>>is rather impertinent and irrelevant for the masses):  why wouldn't you,
>>>Anthony, want to release your program so that Chrilly Donninger might try his
>>>disassembling skills on Zappa as he did with Rybka?  A reminder for you:  the
>>>verdict was that Rybka had no other program's code in it...
>>
>>Actually i do have a few zappa world champs 2005 version here.
>>
>>It's not even close to Fruit. Evaluation of Rybka is very close to Fruit. He
>>added some and lobotomized other things.
>>
>>Zappa's evaluation is totally different from fruit.
>>
>>I am for example debugging a position here from a testgame from diep.
>>Where Diep says here +2.3 for white, Zappa says +1.0. Rybka says 0.1 there and
>>Fruit also says 0.1 there.
>
>As this table shows other engines like Spike 1.0 and SmarThink are far closer to
>Fruit than Rybka. As for Toga the numbers speak for themselves.
>
>http://kd.lab.nig.ac.jp/chess/CCRL-4040/engine-distance-table-all.shtml
>
>Sarah.3.62

Why to confuse Vincent with facts

Smallest numbers

1.78 fruit2.2-Toga1.1(1076 moves)
2.17 CM magic-Gandalf6(77 moves)
2.22 Ktulu7.1-Ktulu7.5(790 moves)
2.32 Deep Junior9-Junior9(1146 moves)
2.50 Deep Shredder9-Shredder9(549 moves)
3.08 spike1.0a-smarthink1(67 moves)
3.23 Hiarcs10-Chesstiger15(98 moves)
3.55 Rybak1.032 bit-chesstiger 15(57 moves)
3.62 Junior9-CM magic(155 games)
3.67 Fritz9-Deep-Fritz8(1722 games)


Uri



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