Author: Chessfun
Date: 19:23:19 02/16/06
Go up one level in this thread
On February 16, 2006 at 21:05:54, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On February 16, 2006 at 17:58:27, Chessfun wrote: > >>On February 16, 2006 at 09:22:43, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On February 16, 2006 at 06:21:57, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: >>> >>>>On February 15, 2006 at 10:20:18, Zappa wrote: >>>> >>>>>So I dropped by to see how my old buddies in CCC were doing, and found a massive >>>>>flamewar :) This is far more to my liking than dry test results, so I thought >>>>>I'd weigh in with a few comments. >>>>> >>>>>The majority of members in CCC seem to be unable to think rationally about >>>>>Rybka. I saw the following argument about 500X: "Vasik is violating the >>>>>charter" "But Rybka is so awesome". Clearly this is complete idiocy. The law >>>>>is intended to apply to everyone equally, regardless of whether or not they have >>>>>an awesome engine. >>>>> >>>>>I left (and this is not a coming back post) because I didn't like reading tons >>>>>of testing posts. However, the majority of people here appear to like it here. >>>>> From what I read in the flamewar Skinner seems correct that Vasik violated the >>>>>charter, but perhaps rather than crucifying Vasik (or Skinner), the charter >>>>>should be amended so the club serves the interest of the majority. It really >>>>>seems like the majority of people don't mind his "commerical posts" - so what's >>>>>the problem? >>>>> >>>>>I also read Enrico's post on Rybka's nodecount. Vasik claimed it was the result >>>>>of a bug. I read that as "my node count obfuscation algorithm has a bug and >>>>>will be fixed posthaste". If you look at Enrico's numbers, its obvious that >>>>>Rybka is really searching at 2-3M+ nps on big hardware. >>>>> >>>>>So, Vasik, please tell me: why would you would want to hide the node count of >>>>>Rybka? >>>>> >>>>>anthony >>>> >>>> >>>>Interesting post. And very telling. Demands some kind of reply, at least from >>>>a curious member of the CCC (but surely not from Vasik, as the question you ask >>>>is rather impertinent and irrelevant for the masses): why wouldn't you, >>>>Anthony, want to release your program so that Chrilly Donninger might try his >>>>disassembling skills on Zappa as he did with Rybka? A reminder for you: the >>>>verdict was that Rybka had no other program's code in it... >>> >>>Actually i do have a few zappa world champs 2005 version here. >>> >>>It's not even close to Fruit. Evaluation of Rybka is very close to Fruit. He >>>added some and lobotomized other things. >>> >>>Zappa's evaluation is totally different from fruit. >>> >>>I am for example debugging a position here from a testgame from diep. >>>Where Diep says here +2.3 for white, Zappa says +1.0. Rybka says 0.1 there and >>>Fruit also says 0.1 there. >> >>As this table shows other engines like Spike 1.0 and SmarThink are far closer to >>Fruit than Rybka. As for Toga the numbers speak for themselves. >> >>http://kd.lab.nig.ac.jp/chess/CCRL-4040/engine-distance-table-all.shtml >> >>Sarah. > >Moves say nothing. Add in fruit a small kingsafety and it looks less like Fruit >than any other program. I don't think you'd be right about that. But when we play CM10th Xperience v CM10th Default we will see as Xperience has KS as not small but significantly more than CM defaul. Also other changes but I am still willing to guess there output will show they are similar as others do. Such as Fruit - Toga and Deep Fritz 8 - Fritz 9, Ktulu 7.5 - Ktulu 7.1 etc >Enrico makes the point there is also a discrepancy in nodes a second. At slow >hardware it gets initially the same nps first 5 ply like it gets at hardware >factor 20 faster; at bigger depths then at the slow hardware it gets retuned >then the output of nps and also at the faster hardware it gets retuned. Enrico made that point a long time back and this is now a repost. It's been a known fact I think for some period of time now. That still though isn't proof its from the Fruit family. Sarah
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