Author: Günther Simon
Date: 10:16:05 02/21/06
Go up one level in this thread
On February 21, 2006 at 13:05:25, Uri Blass wrote: >On February 21, 2006 at 12:44:39, Günther Simon wrote: > >>On February 21, 2006 at 12:10:27, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On February 21, 2006 at 12:04:05, Günther Simon wrote: >>> >>>>On February 21, 2006 at 11:19:27, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 21, 2006 at 01:30:34, Gabor Szots wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On February 20, 2006 at 16:19:48, Dieter Eberle wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi Gabor, >>>>>>>none of the lines you posted is bad. They may not be played every day by >>>>>>>Kasparov but if you check them with a strong engine like Rybka beta13b you will >>>>>>>find out that the maximal deviation from zero is far below +/- 1, a good result >>>>>>>for a general book in my opinion. >>>>>>>Astonished, Dieter >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi Dieter, >>>>>> >>>>>>I submitted all games with the HS book. I did not claim all the lines were bad. >>>>>>I said the were bizarre. Most of them is too passive to be good. If an engine >>>>>>comes out of the opening with -0.65 (as was the case in Spike vs. Pro Deo) it >>>>>>will probably lose against an opponent of its own caliber. >>>>>> >>>>>>Gábor >>>>> >>>>>I do not agree with it. >>>>> >>>>>-0.65 is not a good predictor of result in the opening. >>>>> >>>>>take the following position from the noomen match >>>>> >>>>>r2q1rk1/3nppbp/b2p1np1/2pP4/8/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 11 >>>>> >>>>>Glaurung say 0.65 pawns for white after a minute of search >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>...snip... AFAIK we speak about -0.65 for _White_! after book end >>>>and that is quite different and IMHO already downhill. >>>> >>>>Guenther >>> >>>I do not see the difference. >>> >>>If +0.65 for white can happen when white is not better then +0.65 for black also >>>can happen when black is not better. >>> >>>Uri >> >> >>Uri are you joking? Of course evals are not evenly distributed for >>the colours, as White has an advantage for the first move, which >>is even exaggerated by the evals of chess programs. > >Based on the match between 2 versions of Movei black won both games inspite of >0.65 pawns advantage by glaurung for white when Movei was even more optimistic. > >My point is that 0.65 pawns advantage can be clearly misleading regardless of >the question which side get it. > >I see no reason to assume that -0.65 for white means that >white will probably lose against an opponent of its own caliber otherwise +0.65 >for white means that white probably wins against an opponent of its own caliber. > >Uri I still disagree, but you don't have to believe it. IMHO -0.65 W POV == around -1.20 B POV , because of an unbalanced scaling around a fictional zero point somewhere at +0.50 - +0.60. BTW we could calculate correlations between results and book out evals from a bigger sample than posted before I guess. Guenther
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