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Subject: Re: Rybka and CC

Author: J.Dufek

Date: 13:51:28 02/25/06

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On February 25, 2006 at 16:48:33, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 25, 2006 at 16:39:39, J.Dufek wrote:
>
>>On February 25, 2006 at 16:02:47, Wayne Lowrance wrote:
>>
>>>On February 25, 2006 at 09:32:15, William Penn wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 25, 2006 at 01:37:12, Wayne Lowrance wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>CC is my interest in Rybka as published little way back. I run my programs
>>>>>against each other in infinate analysis. This takes a lot of time to get a idea
>>>>>of performance. What I am asking can anyone tell me of testing where Rybka and
>>>>>Fritz8 or 9 compare in, say 2 hours per move as for example.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks much
>>>>>Wayne
>>>>
>>>>I haven't heard of any ratings at such long time controls, but it might be
>>>>possible with a large number of people cooperating. Maybe it also could be done
>>>>wwith a good set of test positions. In the meantime we each try different
>>>>engines and then proceed based on instinct.
>>>>
>>>>I don't have Fritz 9 (no DVD player), but have compared the Rybka betas, Fruit
>>>>2.2.1, and Shredder 9. I believe Shredder has been left behind. Rybka or Fruit
>>>>are better.
>>>>
>>>>Fruit behaves better than Rybka and more predictably at long analysis times,
>>>>also produces lengthier analysis outputs. Rybka concatenates the moves to 1 pair
>>>>(2 half-moves) after several hours in infinite mode in most positions. Also it
>>>>is impossible to predict how long it will take between legs with Rybka. I call
>>>>them legs - the successive analysis lines output in the engine window. Fruit's
>>>>multiplier for successive legs tends to be about 2, and behaves fairly
>>>>predictably. Rybka's multiplier is more like 3, but variable, not easy to
>>>>predict; it might be 5 or more. For example you might have let the analysis go
>>>>for 2 hours, and wonder how long you'll have to wait til the next one decides to
>>>>burp itself out into the real world. With Rybka you might have to wait a long
>>>>time, 10-15 hours. With Fruit it's a pretty good bet that the next one will show
>>>>up in about 4 hours total run time. These are important considerations for CC
>>>>players. I'm sure most CC players understand this kind of thinking, others may
>>>>not.
>>>>
>>>>My conclusion at this point is that Rybka is useful at intermediate infinite
>>>>analyis times, say 30 minutes to 2 hours. At longer run times it's too
>>>>unpredictable and often drives me crazy waiting. So I tend to prefer Fruit if
>>>>I'm going to let the analysis run over 2 hours, but I go in cycles. Currently
>>>>I'm in an upcycle that favors Rybka, tomorrow it may be Fruit again. Obviously I
>>>>don't really know anything, everything is just hunches... :)
>>>>WP
>>>
>>>Very interesting, Thank you
>>>Wayne
>>
>>OK. Once more. Infinite analysis is only _SMALL PART_ CC games.
>
>Not correct.
>
>Most computer time that I use for CC is done in infinite analysis.
>
> Ignoring this
>>fact you cannot go up with results and ELO. Fruit's playing style is not very
>>suitable for sharp CC games. Rybka in this moment /short analysis line/ is
>>useless for CC.
>
>Not correct.
>
>There are positions that every chess program does not understand but
>fruit's playing style is no problem.
>
>Rybka short lines are not useless for CC because even short line can give you a
>hint which move to investigate later.
>
>I agree that it is frustrating to see one move that rybka choose with no
>explanation for the reason but it is better than nothing.
>
>Uri

Good luck with your statement. Maybe after more than 1 tournament few years ago
/i am wrong?/ you get chance change you opinion. In reality this have to little
with analysing /and playing/ CC games.



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