Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: engines and openings: can engines guide human play?

Author: Shaun Brewer

Date: 02:57:24 02/28/06

Go up one level in this thread


On February 27, 2006 at 17:09:11, Joseph Ciarrochi wrote:

>But Dan, How much can you really trust the human experts? I mean, I have a video
>by andrew martin on the scandanavian, and I have become convinced that one line
>is just not good for black. The black side gets its but kicked again and again,
>regardless of engine, etc (position below). That passed white pawn is tough, and
>blacks so called "mobile pawn mass" on k-side can come under attack. (I have
>decided to ditrust a line, unless the IM or GM plays it himself at the top
>levels!!!!)
>
>ps I don't only use the computers evaluation of an opening. I let the comps play
>through the openings and see what happens.
>
>
>
>[d] 2kr3r/ppq2p2/1n1b2p1/B1pPpp2/2P4P/1B6/PP2QPP1/2KR3R w - - 0 19

I thought I would put the position in for a while

Running on laptop Toga and Fritz9 concurrently (other bits running)

Analysis by Toga II 1.1a: 128mb hash

1.Bxb6 Qxb6
  ²  (0.38)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:01
1.Kb1
  ±  (1.24)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:01
1.Kb1 Kb8
  ²  (0.67)   Depth: 2/6   00:00:01
1.Kb1 Kb8 2.Ba4
  ²  (0.49)   Depth: 3/7   00:00:02
1.Kb1 Kb8 2.Bc3 Ka8
  ±  (0.77)   Depth: 4/10   00:00:02
1.Kb1 Kb8 2.h5 e4 3.h6
  ±  (0.73)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:03
1.Kb1 Kb8 2.Bc3 Qe7 3.Rde1 f6
  ±  (0.82)   Depth: 6/14   00:00:03  19kN
1.Kb1 Kb8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Rxh5 Rdg8 4.Rxh8 Rxh8 5.Ba4
  ²  (0.58)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:04  48kN
1.Kb1 Kb8 2.h5 gxh5 3.Rxh5 Rdg8 4.Rxh8 Rxh8 5.Bc3 Rh2
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 8/18   00:00:11  117kN
1.Kb1 Rh7 2.Bc2 Kb8 3.Ka1 Ka8 4.f3 f6 5.Bd2
  ²  (0.60)   Depth: 9/20   00:00:14  402kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 gxh5 3.Rxh5 Rdg8 4.g3 f4 5.Rxh8 Rxh8 6.gxf4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:19  860kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 gxh5 3.Rxh5 Rdg8 4.g3 Qd7 5.Bxb6 axb6 6.Rdh1 Rxh5 7.Rxh5
  ±  (0.75)   Depth: 10/21   00:00:21  1072kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh7 3.hxg6 fxg6 4.Bc2 e4 5.Bc3 Bf4 6.Ka1 Rxh1 7.Rxh1
  ²  (0.62)   Depth: 11/24   00:00:39  1789kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh6 3.hxg6 Rxg6 4.g3 e4 5.Rh5 Rf6 6.Rdh1 Be5 7.Rh7
  ±  (0.83)   Depth: 12/28   00:02:29  6992kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh7 3.hxg6 fxg6 4.Qe3 e4 5.Qg5 Rdh8 6.Rxh7 Qxh7 7.Qf6 Bc7 8.d6
  ²  (0.67)   Depth: 13/28   00:03:45  11845kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 e4 3.f3 gxh5 4.Rh3 Rde8 5.Bc2 Qe7 6.Bxb6 axb6 7.Re1 exf3 8.Qxe7
Rxe7 9.Rxe7 Bxe7 10.Rxf3
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 14/28   00:05:31  18880kN
1.h5 Rh7 2.Rh4 Kb8 3.Kb1 e4 4.h6 Be5 5.Rdh1 Rdh8 6.Bd2 Rd8 7.Re1 Ka8 8.Bc2
  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 15/32   00:18:40  59534kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 e4 3.Ka1 Be5 4.f3 exf3 5.gxf3 Rxh5 6.Rxh5 gxh5 7.Rh1 Rh8 8.Bc2 f4
9.Bxb6 axb6 10.Bf5 h4
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 16/34   00:33:07  118626kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh7 3.Rh3 e4 4.f3 exf3 5.Qxf3 Rdh8 6.Rdh1 Bf4 7.g3 Bg5 8.Bc3 f6
9.Qg2 Rxh5 10.Rxh5 Rxh5 11.Rxh5 gxh5
  ±  (0.71)   Depth: 17/35   00:47:16  181286kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh7 3.Rh3 e4 4.f3 exf3 5.Qxf3 Re8 6.Rdh1 Bf4 7.hxg6 Rxh3 8.Rxh3
fxg6 9.Ba4 Rd8 10.Rh4 Be5
  ±  (0.76)   Depth: 18/46   01:10:38  329965kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh7 3.Rh3 e4 4.f3 exf3 5.Qxf3 Re8 6.Rdh1 Qd8 7.Re1 Rhh8 8.Rxe8
Rxe8 9.h6 Nxc4 10.Bxd8 Nd2+ 11.Kc2 Nxf3 12.Rxf3 Rxd8
  ±  (0.80)   Depth: 19/47   01:51:40  734974kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Rh7 3.Rh3 Rdh8 4.Rdh1 e4 5.f3 Qe7 6.fxe4 Qxe4+ 7.Qxe4 fxe4 8.Bc3
Re8 9.hxg6 Rxh3 10.Rxh3 fxg6 11.Bd2 Rf8 12.Rh7 Rf2
  ±  (0.78)   Depth: 20/58   02:43:02  1241690kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.g4 fxg4 3.hxg6 f5 4.f3 g3 5.Qg2 f4 6.Bc2 Qd7 7.Rxh8 Rxh8 8.Rh1 Rxh1+
9.Qxh1 Bf8 10.Bxb6 axb6 11.Qh8 Qe7 12.Qh3 Bg7 13.Kb1
  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 21/58   07:09:00  3854811kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.g4 gxh5 3.gxh5 e4 4.Kb1 Bf4 5.f3 e3 6.Bc3 Rh6 7.Qd3 Rg8 8.Qxf5 Rg5
9.Qe4 Rgxh5 10.Rxh5 Rxh5 11.Qe8+ Nc8 12.d6 Bxd6 13.Qxe3 Be5
  ±  (0.80)   Depth: 22/58   11:15:17  6265249kN


Analysis by Fritz 9:

1.Bc3 f6 2.Kb1 Kb8 3.Ba5
  ²  (0.55)   Depth: 5/21   00:00:00  15kN
1.Bc3 Rh5 2.Kb1 Qe7 3.g3 e4
  ²  (0.46)   Depth: 6/18   00:00:00  20kN
1.Kb1!
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:01  28kN
1.Kb1 e4 2.Bc3 Rh5
  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:01  34kN
1.Bc2!
  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 6/22   00:00:01  52kN
1.Bc2 Qe7 2.h5 Qg5+
  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 6/23   00:00:01  68kN
1.Bc2 Rh5 2.Kb1 Rdh8 3.g3 e4 4.Qe3
  ²  (0.40)   Depth: 7/28   00:00:03  138kN
1.Kb1!
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 7/28   00:00:03  147kN
1.Kb1 Rh5 2.Bd2 Rdh8 3.Bg5 e4 4.Bf6
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 7/28   00:00:03  171kN
1.h5!
  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 7/28   00:00:03  188kN
1.h5 e4 2.h6 Bf4+ 3.Bd2 Rh7 4.Kb1 Bxd2 5.Rxd2
  ²  (0.58)   Depth: 7/28   00:00:04  211kN
1.h5 e4 2.h6 Bf4+ 3.Bd2 Rh7 4.Bxf4 Qxf4+ 5.Qe3 Qd6 6.Kb1
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 8/24   00:00:06  286kN
1.Kb1!
  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 8/24   00:00:06  307kN
1.Bc2!
  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 8/28   00:00:07  406kN
1.Bc2 Qe7 2.h5 Qg5+ 3.Kb1 Rxh5 4.Bxb6 axb6
  ²  (0.49)   Depth: 8/28   00:00:08  482kN
1.Bc2 e4 2.f3 exf3 3.Qxf3 Be5 4.Bb3 Rde8 5.h5 Qd6
  ²  (0.36)   Depth: 9/28   00:00:10  845kN
1.Kb1!
  ²  (0.36)   Depth: 9/28   00:00:11  898kN
1.h5!
  ²  (0.37)   Depth: 9/28   00:00:11  1090kN
1.h5 Rxh5 2.Rxh5 gxh5 3.Bxb6 axb6 4.Ba4 Rg8 5.Qxh5 Rxg2 6.Qxf5+ Kb8
  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 9/28   00:00:11  1328kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Rxh5 Rxh5 3.Qxh5 Qd7 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.Kb1 e4 6.Qe2 Kb8 7.Rh1 Re8
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 10/31   00:00:14  2211kN
1.Bc2!
  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 10/32   00:00:15  3041kN
1.Bc2 e4 2.g4 Rde8 3.gxf5 gxf5 4.f3 Qe7 5.Bxb6 axb6 6.h5 Qg5+ 7.Kb1 Qf4 8.fxe4
  ²  (0.58)   Depth: 11/36   00:00:32  6965kN
1.Bc2 Rh5 2.Rd3 e4 3.Rb3 Rdh8 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.g3 g5 6.g4 Rxh4 7.Rxh4
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 12/34   00:00:58  16051kN
1.Bc2 Rh5 2.Rd3 e4 3.Ra3 Rdh8 4.g3 Kb8 5.Kb1 Be5 6.Rb3 Qd6 7.Bxb6
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 13/36   00:01:19  25912kN
1.h5!
  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 13/36   00:01:27  30647kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Rxh5 Rxh5 3.Qxh5 Qd7 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.Bc2 e4 6.Qe2 Re8 7.f3 Qe7 8.Qe3
Rg8
  ²  (0.62)   Depth: 13/36   00:02:18  52934kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Rxh5 Rxh5 3.Qxh5 Qd7 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.Bc2 e4 6.Qe2 Re8 7.f3 Qe7 8.Qe3
Rg8
  ²  (0.62)   Depth: 14/38   00:06:18  99151kN
1.h5 Qd7 2.Bc2 e4 3.f3 Rde8 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.hxg6 Rxh1 6.Rxh1 exf3 7.Qxf3
  ±  (0.71)   Depth: 15/38   00:15:04  302893kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Rxh5 Rxh5 3.Qxh5 Qd7 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.Bc2 e4 6.Qe2 Re8 7.f3 Qe7 8.Kb1
Kb8
  ²  (0.68)   Depth: 16/41   00:33:53  691353kN
1.h5 gxh5 2.Rxh5 Rxh5 3.Qxh5 Qd7 4.Bxb6 axb6 5.Bc2 e4 6.Qe2 Re8 7.f3 Kb8 8.Kb1
e3 9.g4 f4
  ²  (0.66)   Depth: 17/44   00:59:45  1346975kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Qd7 3.Bc3 Rde8 4.hxg6 Rxh1 5.Rxh1 fxg6 6.Qd2 Rg8 7.Qg5 e4
  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 18/46   02:20:57  3360851kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Qd7 3.Bc3 Rde8 4.hxg6 Rxh1 5.Rxh1 fxg6 6.Qd2 Rg8 7.Qg5 e4 8.Rh6
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 19/47   05:37:07  8148527kN
1.h5 Kb8 2.Kb1 Qd7 3.Bc3 Rde8 4.hxg6 Rxh1 5.Rxh1 fxg6 6.Qd2 Rg8 7.Qg5
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 20/49   14:02:48  20486772kN

I will leave them running and post agin tonight

Shaun



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.