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Subject: Re: The Book Problem, Open Book Format proposal, Request for comments.

Author: Odd Gunnar Malin

Date: 13:24:49 03/03/06

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On March 03, 2006 at 13:59:27, Jay Urbanski wrote:

>I'd like to get some comments on an idea that's been growing in the back of my
>head for some time now.  The problem is that of opening books.  We now have two
>open protocols for communication between engine and GUI with Winboard and UCI -
>but every GUI has chosen to go the route of a proprietary book format -
>presumably to lock users into that GUI.  (Even Arena does this, something that
>puzzles me since it is free)  This may be good for the vendors business models,
>but it bad for users since it limits choice.
>
>So what is the engine author to do?  They can:
>
>A.  Pick a GUI to support (and alienate users of other GUIs)
>B.  Make an engine book (with almost certainly less features than the GUI books)
>C.  Support all the GUIs (way too much effort, and almost certainly inconsistent
>quality of books)
>
>All of these have their shortcomings, so my proposal is the establishment of an
>open book format.   The idea is that with one format option "B" could be a lot
>more attractive, especially if enough features were put into the book
>specification.
>
>A common objection to this idea is "It won't fly without support from the GUI
>vendors, and none of them will support it".  I agree none of the GUI vendors are
>likely to support it at first (except maybe Arena?) but I contend that if enough
>engine authors support it, *and* we could get a decent book editor/viewer
>written so that users could view the book, tweak it, etc - it wouldn't matter
>whether the GUI authors support it.   And if it became popular enough, the GUI
>vendors might add it as a feature due to customer demand.
>
>So I'd like comments/feedback/criticism from everyone.  Book authors especially,
>what features would need to be present to make it a good format?  As a user I
>would defnintely want book learning and an intuitive but flexible syntax to
>weight moves.
>
>Would an existing format like Polyglot be a good starting point?  Would the
>Arena team consider donating the .ABK format as the basis?  Would anyone be
>willing to donate programming skill & time toward a decent book editor/viewer?
>
>Am I the only one who cares about this?  :)

Isn't it easier to agree on some import rules for importing pgn-files, eg. !, ?!
etc. after the move are interpretet as the same in all gui when importing.
ChessPartner have another system that also could be considered, it allow you to
specify a score for each line in the pgn file.

The problem I have is that I create my books as games with variations in a DB
program (CA for me). Then I have to make all sorts of converting to be able to
import it into the GUI I want to play with, ChessMaster, Shredder, ChessPartner
or even Fritz. I'm maybe excentric but I usually use the GUI that was attended
to the engine when I bought it.

Maybe there is some shortcomming for the few who run engine-engine matches, but
for the big bunch that use the programs main feature it is realy enough with the
few scoring you get from a pgn-file (??,?,?!,<none>,!,!!). If the GUI in
addition have the ability to import Black and White into a repertoire for the
engineplayer so you can use a single book for both color when training, I think
all may needs should be taken care of.

Odd Gunnar



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