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Subject: Re: I need advise !

Author: Roberto Waldteufel

Date: 12:42:16 04/19/99

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On April 19, 1999 at 15:08:42, James Robertson wrote:

>On April 19, 1999 at 14:59:29, Roberto Waldteufel wrote:
>
>>On April 19, 1999 at 14:14:37, James Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>I must disagree with you. Firstly, speed is critical for chess. How to get
>>>>maximum speed? - use hand-optimized assembler. That is NOT lunacy, it is plain
>>>>common sense. It might be difficult, but if the results are better it certainly
>>>>does not make it mad. Much of my program is written in assembler, so I shall be
>>>>expecting a visit from the men in the long white coats soon!
>>>
>>>You miss my point. Obviously, it cannot be complete lunacy, as Franz Morsch
>>>actually did it, and he has one of the most successful programs in the world. I
>>>was talking tongue in cheek. Several speed-critical functions in my program are
>>>written in hand-coded assembler too.
>>>
>>>But, whatever it is, it cannot be common sense. As far as I know, Fritz and
>>>Rebel are the only PC programs written in assembler. Both are commercial, and
>>>apparently, Ed Schroeder had enough of assembler, as he announced he was
>>>translating his program into C++ (very wise, if you ask me).
>>>
>>Well, I guess what I mean is "if you can do it, then it makes sense to". It is
>>the perfectionist's choice - if you refuse to compromise efficiency under any
>>circumstances, then assembler it has to be.
>
>Yeah... but for me to try to do it, it would be lunacy. :)
>
>>Obviously it is much easier to use a
>>high level language, but the easiest way does not produce the absolute best
>>performance. It is no surprise to me that the existing assembler chess programs
>>are among the best.
>>
>>>>
>>>>Second, Visual Basic is more than 20 times slower than the best commercial >Basic
>>>>compilers
>>>
>>>Yes, but I wasn't talking about Basic; I was talking about VB.
>>>
>>>>- if you are going to talk about Basic, at least see what a modern
>>>>efficient (as opposed to virtual anything!) Basic compiler can do. There are
>>>>Basic compilers now that will compile small, fast executables to run under Win9x
>>>>and Win NT, and they include a full 32-bit in-line assembler as well - blows the
>>>>wheels of Visul C, and C++.
>>>
>>>The Basic compilers are faster than VC++? I haven't heard this before; perhaps
>>>you could give me some websites for more information? I am also a good Basic
>>>programmer, and if it is faster.....
>>>
>>>James
>>>
>>
>>Yes, it is faster, and you are not alone in not having heard. Check out the
>>PowerBasic web site at http://powerbasic.com/
>>For 32-bit Windows stuff, you will want either PBDLL or PBCC compilers (I use
>>both). In my experience, their products are very good. There are some
>>discussions about PowerBasic speed compared to other compilers on the BBS there
>>- see for yourself. If you like the Basic language, then these 32-bit Windows
>>compilers are really great. PBDLL is more general in its use, whereas PBCC is
>>much easier to use and very much more similar in its syntax to traditional
>>basics than VB, but only compiles console (ie text) applications, although I did
>>manage to design a passable chess display with it. With PBDLL you get the full
>>graphics capabilities of Windows, but you need to know a lot more about the
>>Windows API.
>>
>>The general consensus among programmers who use these compilers as well as other
>>compilers (like VB, Virtual C and C++) is that PowerBasic is faster, especially
>>compared to the crawling VB. Compared to straight C the difference is only very
>>small, but seems to be in Basic's favour. Many of these programmers are people
>>who use PB at home, but are obliged to use something else at work.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>Roberto
>
>Cool... I'll check this stuff out. I like C++ syntax better, but that may be
>just because I know it very very well. :)
>
>James

Yes, once you get used to something it is always easier than something new.
However, if you give PB a try I doubt you will be disappointed.




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