Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 13:59:18 03/06/06
Go up one level in this thread
On March 04, 2006 at 20:01:52, Kenny Dail wrote: >On March 04, 2006 at 15:05:59, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On March 04, 2006 at 07:25:23, Kenny Dail wrote: >> >>>I kind of think the idea of a GUI book is currently a silly implementation and >>>would like to see a better standard appear. >>> >>>I would not like it if I went to a tournament and the TD came and told me which >>>moves I was going to play. For me at least, opening selection and preparation is >>>part the game of chess, by forcing me to play someone else's opening lines, is >>>more like playing a chess variant. I don't know of any chess organizations that >>>allow "thematic" tournaments to be figured into a person's rating. >>> >>>To make a book useful, (GUI or otherwise) there needs to be input from the >>>player. At the very least presenting the list of "acceptable" moves to the >>>player and letting it select the one it likes. Thus the player can try to steer >>>towards games that fit it's style. >>> >>>Ideally a good book setup will allow the engine to add new lines, or break from >>>the book if it doesn't like any of the available lines. For example if the book >>>supplied has only 1 e4 available, then engine should still be allowed to play 1 >>>d4, and add that line to the book for future reference. >>> >>>For a book that is going to be used by multiple engines, there shoulb be engine >>>specific tags available, so each engine can keep it's own notes as well be able >>>to access global stats. >> >>You make an interesting point. There should be two different types of book >>information: >>Thematic moves (you MUST perform the requested move) >>Suggested moves (the book will make a suggestion that you can take or leave). >> >>I remember that Crafty used to analyze book moves at 10% or so just to make sure >>that it wasn't about to do something silly based on a bad stored move. >> >>Arena has a checkbox for "own book" so you can use an Arena book, or allow the >>program to use its own book. >> >>The problem addressed by this thread is not necessarily about book utilization, >>but in creating a better book for use by amateur chess engine authors and >>amateur book authors. I think that the Rybka book notes are revealing. The >>ChessBase format was chosen because currently, the book author is unaware of any >>decent tools for making a good book in some other format. *That* is the problem >>that is being addressed. > >Well, then to try and put this into relevance, If the GUIs would cater to the >needs of the engines as outlined above, then there wouldn't be a need to build >engine specific books. Instead the engine could train the GUI. The author would >then only have to use an API and supply a sample of games for the engine to >parse into the book. The database approach does not preclude that sort of usage. The opening book could just as easily be bolted to a GUI as to an engine. The tool produced will be totally generic. What the output of the project will be is a permanent store for chess information that is carefully spelled out to contain the things needed for good decisions. Whether it is a chess GUI or a chess engine or something else that uses this information is not relevent to the project itself.
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