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Subject: Re: Crafty: trouble with possible perpetual check positions

Author: Paulo Soares

Date: 02:22:37 04/21/99

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On April 20, 1999 at 21:44:00, Dave Gomboc wrote:

>Here's a "real position", that is, one that has actually been reached in games.
>It is from the Marshall Gambit in the Ruy Lopez.
>
>[Event "?"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "?"]
>[Round "-"]
>[White "?"]
>[Black "?"]
>[Result "*"]
>
>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8.
>c3 d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. Nxe5 Nxe5 11. Rxe5 c6 12. d4 Bd6 13. Re1 Qh4 14. g3
>Qh3 15. Be3 Bg4 16. Qd3 Rae8 17. Nd2 Re6 18. a4 f5 19. Qf1 Qh5 20. f4 bxa4
>21. Rxa4 Rb8 22. Bxd5 cxd5 23. Qg2 Qe8 24. Qxd5 Kh8 25. Kf2 g5 26. Rxa6
>Rxb2 27. Ra2 gxf4 28. gxf4 Rxa2 29. Qxa2 Bxf4 30. Nf1 Qe7 *
>
>Now, White can (and I think should) play 31. Qxe6 here.  What is Black's best
>response?  Well, if 31...Qh4+ leads to perpetual, then it is best, otherwise
>31...Qxe6 will probably have to do.
>
>Rebel 9 (PII-300) thinks the position after 31...Qh4+ is +3.xx after under a
>second, and holds this score for at least 5 minutes.  It's main line is Qh4+ Kg1
>Bxh2 Nxh2 Qg3+ Kh1 Qxe1+ Kg2 ...
>
>
>Crafty 16.6 (dual PII-300) appears to think that the position is a draw:
>
>max threads set to 2
>display PV each time it changes.
>display statistics at end of each search.
>display extended statistics at end of each search.
>display move numbers in variations.
>hash table memory = 48M bytes.
>pawn hash table memory = 4M bytes.
>
>Crafty v16.6 (2 cpus)
>
>White(1): read test.pgn
>middle-game phase
>              puzzling over a move to ponder.
>              clearing hash tables
>              depth   time  score   variation (1)
>starting thread 1
>                4->   0.09   0.99   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qd5
>                5     0.11   1.03   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3
>                5->   0.30   1.03   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3
>                6     0.33   1.10   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re8+
>                                    Kg7 34. Re7+ Kf6
>                6->   0.59   1.10   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re8+
>                                    Kg7 34. Re7+ Kf6
>                7     0.76   1.02   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3
>                                    Qa2+ 34. Ke1 Qc2
>                7->   2.28   1.02   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3
>                                    Qa2+ 34. Ke1 Qc2
>                8     2.55   0.98   31. Qxe6 Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3
>                                    Kg8 34. h3 Bd1
>White(31): Qxe6 [pondering]
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 30.00 (3:00) [easy move]
>              depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                5->   0.09  -1.10   31. ... Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re8+
>                                    Kg7 34. Re7+ Kf6
>                6     0.12  -1.02   31. ... Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3 Qa2+
>                                    34. Ke1 Qc2
>                6->   0.31  -1.02   31. ... Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3 Qa2+
>                                    34. Ke1 Qc2
>                7     0.37  -0.98   31. ... Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3 Kg8
>                                    34. h3 Bd1
>                7->   0.62  -0.98   31. ... Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qc4 33. Re3 Kg8
>                                    34. h3 Bd1
>                8     1.30  -1.22   31. ... Qxe6 32. Bxf4 Qb3 33. Re3 Qc2+
>                                    34. Kg1 Be2 35. Re8+ Kg7 36. Ng3 Qd1+
>                                    37. Kg2
>                8     3.50     ++   31. ... Qh4+!!
>                8     3.59   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                8->   4.01   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                9     5.08   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                9->   5.80   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>               10     8.86     --   31. ... Qh4+
>               10    31.34     ++   31. ... Qh4+!!
>               10    31.36   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                                    <HT>
>               10->  33.06   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                                    <HT>
>               11    37.37   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>               11->  40.87   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>               12     1:00     --   31. ... Qh4+
>               12     4:37     ++   31. ... Qh4+!!
>               12     4:37   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                                    <HT>
>               12->   4:48   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>                                    <HT>
>               13     5:30   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>               13->   5:48   0.00   31. ... Qh4+ 32. Kg2 Qh3+ 33. Kf2 Qh4+
>               14     7:51     --   31. ... Qh4+
>White(31): quit
>execution complete.
>
>[I typed in quit when the time count was past 30 minutes.  It had not yet
>resolved the 14th ply.]
>
>I am not very good with operating crafty from the command line: I could not tell
>it to "go to infinite time control mode and think on a move".  But it seems like
>this ponder search should be sufficient.
>
>Anyway, once I get to the position after Qh4+, Crafty decides to play 32. Kg1 in
>under 3 seconds, with a large score (> 3 pawns).  So why was it taking so long
>to see this in the ponder search?  I am not sure if it is a symptom of a search
>going haywire, or merely a run-of-the-mill bug. :/
>
>How do other programs handle this position?  Oh, and could someone on the crafty
>email list please post this there for Bob, since he doesn't seem to be around on
>CCC anymore.
>
>Dave

Dave,

Fritz5.32, Genius6 and Hiarcs7.01 chooses 31. ...Qxe6 as its main
move. their analyses are seemed to Rebel9 and Crafty after 31. ...Qh4+.
I, in the style manmachine, deepened the analyses for 31. ...Qh4+,
and I think that does not exist a perpetual check. In my opinion
blacks loses after.31. ...Qh4+, even so the analyses are very complex,
I would need a "truck full of variants" to prove that. 31. ...Bg6,
it's a move that deserves attention.  Best move in this position?
It's difficult, but I would be with 31. ...Qxe6.

Regards,

Paulo Soares, from Brazil



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