Author: Dave Gomboc
Date: 10:23:10 05/04/99
Go up one level in this thread
On May 04, 1999 at 13:06:06, Prakash Das wrote: >On May 03, 1999 at 22:06:50, Will Singleton wrote: > >>On May 03, 1999 at 20:37:31, Prakash Das wrote: >> >>>On May 02, 1999 at 12:10:26, Dave Gomboc wrote: >>> >>>>On May 01, 1999 at 22:33:58, James Robertson wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 01, 1999 at 19:29:38, odell hall wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>This is the same person who accuses IBM of fraud. Just because he is a world >>>>>>>champion doesn't mean that all of his opinions are correct. (Fischer, anyone?) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I don't think anyone ever claimed that all of his opinions were correct. But I >>>>>>think even his enemies would admitt that on matters of chess he is the premier >>>>>>authority! Then on subjects of Politics or philosophy I would listen to kaspy >>>>>>with a grain of salt but when it comes to chess , surely his opinion should be >>>>>>taken seriously certainly above a 2500 AND BELOW CHESS PLAYER. >>>>> >>>>>I am not disagreeing with you, but he claimed that DB had cheated, saying "No >>>>>computer could play a move like Be4", which certainly sounds like he is talking >>>>>about chess. Because of his comments (he is after all the premier authority) do >>>>>you believe that DB had to have cheated? >>>>> >>>>>James >>>> >>>>I am disagreeing with him. :) On matters of computer chess, he is FAR from an >>>>authority. The developers of computer chess software (and hardware :) are the >>>>experts when it comes to this debate. >>>> >>>>What I think is really cool about it is we have just seen Deep Blue pass a >>>>limited Turing Test. The best player in the world thinks that it cheated, it >>>>had to be a human playing some of those moves! >>>> >>>>Dave >>> >>> Uhh.. how? DB team had access to GMs during the progress of the game. Also, the >>>computer crashed a few times during play and rebooted. Which raises suspicions >>>of changes inflicted on it by humans before/after. >>>Kasparov knows quite a lot, he is not your usual Salov mouthing off, or Judit >>>Polgar demanding huge appearance fees even though she is not that good (thrashed >>>by Fritz) >>> Limited turing test.. uh. >>>That's why I stopped posting to internet. >> >> >>Thanks for your insight, uh. >> >>Will > > Is this the moderator I voted for? I wonder how your one-line derisive sentence >enhanced CCC. The implied meaning of his statement is that he disagrees with your disagreeing with me. Of course, I disagree with you, so perhaps that is why I think he is agreeing to disagree with your disagreement. <grin> It appears you are happy to call into doubt the integrity of the developers of Deep Blue, the arbiter of the match (Ken Thompson), and anyone else involved in the whole thing that might have been able to participate in a cover-up. Systems crash. It happens. In my eyes, this is not a serious argument for suggesting that this is because they were cheating, or this is what gave them the opportunity to cheat, or... Kasparov is undoubtedly an intelligent person, but his experience with computer chess is limited to playing and analyzing with computer software, and speaking with software developers (perhaps people from ChessBase and Junior, though I don't know for sure). This definately sticks him in the "informed end-user" category, as KarinsDad put it. When you increase the number of nodes you can examine by three orders of magnitude while approximating or improving the state of the art in search selectivity and position assessment, it is not surprising that an informed end-user cannot correctly extrapolate from what they thought could be seen by a program to what can now be seen by a program. Even the software developers would have a tough time of this without actually doing it and seeing the results themselves, because the testing would take a huge amount of time on slower systems. I'll stay out of the "uh"ing, you guys seem to have it covered. :) Dave
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