Author: Mark Young
Date: 18:50:22 05/08/99
Go up one level in this thread
On May 08, 1999 at 21:17:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On May 08, 1999 at 20:09:18, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>
>>On May 08, 1999 at 18:13:34, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>In the ssdf games Hiarcs7 did not win the following position against Rebel9:
>>>
>>>8/4kB2/2K5/4N3/8/8/8/8 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Rebel played 90...Kf6 and Hiarcs7 replied 91.Kd5 Ke7 92.Be6 Kf6
>>>93.Nf3 Kg7 94.Bd7 Kf7 95.Kd6 Kf6 96.Bg4 Kf7 97.Bh3 Kf6 98.Bg4 Kf7
>>>99.Kd7 Kf6 100.Ke8 Kg7 101.Bc8 Kf6 102.Bg4 Kg7 103.Ke7 Kg6 104.Bc8
>>>Kg7 105.Bd7 Kg6 106.Bb5 Kf5 107.Nd2 Ke5 108.Nb3 Kf5 109.Kd6 Kf6
>>
>>
>>>110.Bd7 Kg5 11.Ke5 Kg6 112.Nd4 Kf7 113.Be6+ Kg7 114.Kf5 Kh7
>>>115.Kf6 Kh8 116.Nf3 Kh7 117.Bf5+ Kg8 118.Ng5 Kh8 119.Bg6 Kg8 120.Bf5 Kh8 121.Bg6
>>>Kg8 122.Bh7+ Kh8 123.Bf5 Kg8 124.Ne6 Kh8 125.Ng5 Kg8
>>>126.Nf7 Kf8 127.Bh7 Ke8 128.Ne5 Kd8 129.Nc4 Kd7 130.Be4 Ke8 131.Bb7 Kf8
>>>and the game was drawn at move 140
>>>
>>>Is it the same Hiarcs7 that won convincingly in mark young's games?
>>>
>>>I know mark young used hiarcs7.01 and maybe the ssdf used Hiarcs7.0 in this game
>>>but I did not read about a difference between 7.00 and 7.01 except the fact that
>>>7.01 is 2% faster.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>Hallo!
>>
>>Sorry what´s the problem? Have we done something wrong and in that case for what
>>reason? As you know we have played with 7.0 until 7.01 was available.
>>
>>Bertil SSDF
>
>
>No. Possibly Mark's test was flawed. Playing A vs A doesn't prove A can beat
>B (if B knows more about the position). The best test would be for Mark to
>log on to ICC and play hiarcs vs knbk, a program that uses tablebases and only
>plays the K side. It can be _very_ difficult to beat a tablebase program
>because it will know _all_ the tricks.
>
>We had a discussion last year about KQ vs KR where I thought that KQ was
>hard to win. But I ran a bunch of games with KQ (no tablebases) vs KR (with
>tablebases) and did prove that this is actually easy for a computer. KBN vs K
>is hard if you start off in positions near the worst possible case, because one
>mistake adds 10 moves. And two mistakes can take it over 50 moves and draw.
Hi Bob, I can do that also...I did try to see if Hiarcs7.0 would replay the same
moves. It would not replay the moves as SSDF Hiarcs7 played. I did let Hiarcs7
play out the position at 10 sec a move then at 2 min a move to see if it had
trouble winning...It did not at any time control. He is self play at 2 min a
move. As of now it seems that SSDF hiarcs7 had somekind of malfuction, and its
rating my be a bit better then what SSDF has listed if this problem happens in
other endgames.
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "1999.05.08"]
[Round ""]
[White "HIARCS"]
[Black "HIARCS"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "8/4kB2/2K5/4N3/8/8/8/8 b - -"]
Kf6 {H7: 14 1...Kf6 Kd6 Kf5 Bg6+ Kf6 Be4 Kg7 Ke6 Kh8 Kf6 Kg8 Nf7 Kf8 Nh6
=-2185}
2. Kd5 {H7: 15 2.Kd5 Ke7 Bg6 Kf6 Kd6 Kg7 Ke6 Kh8 Kf6 Kg8 Nf7 Kf8 Bc2 Kg8 =
2197}
2... Ke7 {H7: 16 2...Ke7 Bg6 Kf6 Kd6 Kg5 Ke7 Kh6 Be4 Kg7 Bd5 Kh6 =-2212}
3. Bg6 {H7: 15 3.Bg6 Kf6 Kd6 Kg7 Ke7 Kg8 Kf6 Kh8 Nf7+ Kg8 Bc2 Kf8 Bh7 Ke8 =
2202}
3... Kf6 {H7: 15 3...Kf6 Kd6 Kg7 Ke6 Kg8 Kf6 Kh8 Nf7+ Kg8 Bb1 Kf8 Nh6 Ke8
Ke5 Kf8 =-2208}
4. Kd6 {H7: 15 4.Kd6 Kg7 Ke7 Kg8 Bf7+ Kg7 Ng4 Kh8 Kf8 Kh7 Be8 Kh8 = 2206}
4... Kg7 {H7: 14 4...Kg7 Ke7 Kh6 Bf5 Kg7 Nf7 Kg8 Kf6 Kf8 Nh6 Ke8 Ke5 Kf8
=-2208}
5. Ke7 {H7: 15 5.Ke7 Kg8 = 2236}
5... Kh6 {H7: 13 5...Kh6 Bd3 Kg7 Bb5 Kg8 =-2224}
6. Be4 {H7: 13 6.Be4 Kg7 Bd5 Kh7 Kf7 Kh6 Be4 Kg5 Nd3 Kg4 Kf6 Kh5 = 2228}
6... Kg7 {H7: 14 6...Kg7 Nf7 Kg8 Kf6 Kf8 Ne5 Kg8 Bc2 Kh8 Nf7+ Kg8 Ke7
=-2240}
7. Ng6 {H7: 14 7.Ng6 Kg8 Kf6 Kh7 Bd5 Kh6 Bg8 Kh5 Ne5 Kh6 Nf7+ Kh5 Kf5 Kh4 =
2236}
7... Kg8 {H7: 14 7...Kg8 Kf6 Kh7 Bd5 Kh6 Bg8 Kh5 Ne5 Kh4 Kf5 Kg3 Bc4 Kf2
=-2247}
8. Kf6 {H7: 15 8.Kf6 Kh7 Bd5 Kh6 Bg8 Kh5 Ne5 Kh4 Kf5 Kg3 Ng4 Kf3 Bc4 Kg2 =
2239}
8... Kh7 {H7: 04 8...Kh7 Bd5 Kh6 Nf8 =-2185}
9. Bd5 {H7: 14 9.Bd5 Kh6 Bg8 Kh5 Be6 Kh6 Bf5 Kh5 Bd7 Kh6 Ne5 Kh7 = 2236}
9... Kh6 {H7: 04 9...Kh6 Nf8 Kh5 Bf7+ Kh6 =-2197}
10. Bg8 {H7: 15 10.Bg8 Kh5 Ne5 Kh4 Kf5 Kg3 Ng4 Kg2 Bc4 Kf3 Bd3 Kg3 Bb5 Kf3 =
2252}
10... Kh5 {H7: 04 10...Kh5 Ne5 Kh6 Nf7+ Kh5 =-2201}
11. Ne5 {H7: 14 11.Ne5 Kh4 Kf5 Kg3 Ng4 Kg2 Bc4 Kf3 Bf1 Kg3 Kg5 Kf3 Bd3 Kg2 =
2261}
11... Kh4 {H7: 13 11...Kh4 Kf5 Kg3 Ng4 Kf3 Bc4 Kg3 Be2 Kh4 Ne5 Kg3 Nd3 Kh3
=-2252}
12. Kf5 {H7: 13 12.Kf5 Kg3 Ng4 Kf3 Bc4 Kg3 Bd5 Kh3 Kf4 Kh4 Nf6 = 2270}
12... Kg3 {H7: 13 12...Kg3 Ng4 Kf3 Bc4 Kg3 Bd5 Kh4 =-2266}
13. Ng4 {H7: 13 13.Ng4 Kg2 Bc4 Kf3 Bb5 Kg3 Bc6 Kh3 Kg5 Kg3 Bd5 Kh3 = 2270}
13... Kg2 {H7: 15 13...Kg2 Bc4 Kf3 Bb5 Kg3 Bc6 Kh4 Kf4 Kh3 Ne3 Kh4 Bf3 Kh3
=-2322}
14. Bc4 {H7: 13 14.Bc4 Kf3 Bb5 Kg3 Bc6 Kh4 Kf4 Kh5 Be8+ Kh4 Nh6 Kh3 Bc6 Kh2
= 2296}
14... Kf3 {H7: 13 14...Kf3 Bb5 Kg3 Bc6 Kh4 Kf4 Kh3 Ne3 Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Bd5 Kh2
=-2300}
15. Bb5 {H7: 13 15.Bb5 Kg3 Bc6 Kh3 Kf4 Kh4 Bd5 Kh5 = 2296}
15... Kg3 {H7: 13 15...Kg3 Be2 Kh4 Kg6 Kg3 Kg5 Kh3 Kf4 Kg2 Bb5 Kh3 =-2322}
16. Bc6 {H7: 14 16.Bc6 Kh3 Kg5 Kg3 Bd5 Kh3 Kf4 Kh4 Bc6 Kh5 = 2322}
16... Kh4 {H7: 13 16...Kh4 Kf4 Kh5 Be8+ Kh4 Ne3 Kh3 Bb5 Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Bf1+
Kh2 Ne3 Kg1 =-2322}
17. Kf4 {H7: 13 17.Kf4 Kh5 Be8+ Kh4 Bb5 Kh3 Be2 Kg2 Bf3+ Kf1 Kg5 Kg1 Be2 Kh1
Kf4 Mat+12}
17... Kh5 {H7: 13 17...Kh5 Be8+ Kh4 Ne3 Kh3 Bb5 Kh4 Be2 Kh3 Ng4 Kh4 Bb5
=-2322}
18. Be8+ {H7: 11 18.Be8+ Kh4 Ne3 Kh3 Bb5 Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Bf1+ Kh2 Ne3 Kh1
Mat+11}
18... Kh4 {H7: 04 18...Kh4 Ne3 Kh3 Bd7+ Kh4 =-2266}
19. Ne3 {H7: 10 19.Ne3 Kh3 Bd7+ Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Kf3 Kh2 Ne3 Kg1 Mat+9}
19... Kh3 {H7: 04 19...Kh3 Bb5 Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Bf1+ Kh2 =-2300}
20. Bd7+ {H7: 08 20.Bd7+ Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Ng3+ Kh4 Bb5 Kh3 Bf1+ Kh4 Be2 Kh3 Bg4+
Kh4 Nf5+ Mat+8}
20... Kh4 {H7: 11 20...Kh4 Nf5+ Kh3 Kf3 Kh2 Mat-7}
21. Nf5+ {H7: 08 21.Nf5+ Kh3 Kf3 Kh2 Bc6 Kg1 Ba8 Kf1 Ng3+ Kg1 Ne2+ Kh1 Kg3+
Mat+7}
21... Kh3 {H7: 04 21...Kh3 Kf3 Kh2 Nh4 =-2306}
22. Kf3 {H7: 07 22.Kf3 Kh2 Bc6 Kg1 Nd4 Kh1 Kf2+ Kh2 Nf3+ Kh3 Bd7+ Mat+6}
22... Kh2 {H7: 04 22...Kh2 Ng3 Kg1 Bc8 =-2306}
23. Ne3 {H7: 05 23.Ne3 Kg1 Kg3 Kh1 Kf2 Mat+5}
23... Kg1 {H7: 04 23...Kg1 Kg3 Mat-4}
24. Kg3 {H7: 04 24.Kg3 Kh1 Kf2 Kh2 Nf1+ Kh1 Bc6+ Mat+4}
24... Kh1 {H7: 03 24...Kh1 Kf2 Mat-3}
25. Kf2 {H7: 02 25.Kf2 Kh2 Nf1+ Kh1 Bc6+ Mat+3}
25... Kh2 {H7: 01 25...Kh2 Nf1+ Kh1 Bc6+ Mat-2}
26. Nf1+ {H7: 01 26.Nf1+ Kh1 Bc6+ Mat+2}
26... Kh1 {H7: 01 26...Kh1 Bc6+ Mat-1}
27. Bc6+ {H7: 01 27.Bc6+ Mat+1}
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