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Subject: Re: DB Chip will kill all comercial programs or.....

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 12:58:20 05/14/99

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On May 14, 1999 at 15:45:12, Gregor Overney wrote:
[snip]
>Does DB stand for Deep Blue? Or is this discussion about another "DB", such as
>Deutsche Bundesbahn, maybe? :-) . To cite IBM's statement:
>
>"Deep Blue is at heart a massively parallel, RS/6000 SP-based computer system
>that was designed to play chess at the grandmaster level."
>
>Where are the RS/6000 chips on this DB chip?
They are not on the DB chip at all.   Special purpose hardware was fitted to a
general purpose computer.

>And how would you put 480 chips in
>one?
16 clusters of 30 to a board.

>Lets make a some small calculation: DB (1997 version) runs at 200
>Mnodes/sec (right?). It uses 480 chips and 32 (?) RS/6000 CPUs. Lets just assume
>that those 32 (?) RS/6000 CPUs are just sitting there to diplay an IBM logo.
>Well, 200,000,000 divided by 480 times 15 gives 6.25 Mnodes/sec (why 36?).
Why are you multiplying by 15?  200M / 480 =  416666.6666667 (about 1/2 million
NPS per chip is achieved in total.)  Surely there are losses because of
communications, barking up the wrong tree, etc.

>So, what do we need to make this single DB-chip a success?
>
>1) The expected factor 15 is real (has to be seen)
You can get a factor of 10 just by shrinking the die to modern sizes.  This is
probably as easy as falling off of a log.

>2) The search is all that's needed to play chess (I doupt it!)
It's all that is needed to search.

>3) This chip will hit the market before 2001 and sells for less than $100 (in
>quantity of 1000). Otherwise it will be too expensive once it hits the consumer
>market.
I would buy it at $1000.
[snip]
>
>What are you telling me is that the evaluation functions are _hardcoded_ in the
>chip that are supposed to make the search? What were those RS/6000 chips doing?
Memory transfers, communications between nodes, etc.

[snip]
>>But a special-purpose chip will _always_ be at least an order of magnitude
>>faster than a general purpose solution.  Always has, always will be...
>
>Unfortunately, special-purpose chips are always released behind the market's
>release of new general purpose chips. Let's see in 2002 if a 6.25 Mnodes/sec
>general-purpose chip is a factor 10 faster than DEC's new Alpha that will be
>released in 2002. - If I am not completely mistaken, an Intel pIII/500 runs more
>than 300 knodes/sec using Junior 5/32. (Even an old p6/200 cranks 100 knodes/sec
>out of Crafty). And that's just today's entry level CPU for new systems. Intel
>has already announced that they can produce 1000 GHz versions of it (in large
>quantities). In the close future, it will be really difficult to be a factor 10
>faster. - At the end it is supposed to play chess and not just make a simple,
>but super-fast brute force search.
Your "1000 GHz" figure is surely a blunder by three decimal places.  I think you
must mean 1.000 GHz, since they have nothing even remotely approaching that
right now.

Deep Blue is several orders of magnitude faster than any PC general purpose
search.  I figure that 20 AMD K2's or Alpha 21264's would be about equivalent.
Intel does not even have anything that can possibly compete on the drawing board
that I am aware of.  Merced is way behind.

Consider the cost difference.



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