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Subject: Re: ELO Rating of DB jr. @120M NPS ??? (look out Garry K)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 21:05:29 05/15/99

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On May 14, 1999 at 15:09:35, KarinsDad wrote:

>On May 14, 1999 at 14:25:05, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:
>
>>On May 14, 1999 at 13:14:36, KarinsDad wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>You seem to misunderstand alpha-beta. Alpha-beta *always* finds the same "best"
>>move as exhaustive search does at any depth. What it does not tell you is how
>>much better the "best" move is.
>
>Alpha Beta finds the best move "under the same depth and constraints", but does
>not find the best move. That is why chess programs are not perfect at this point
>in development (since they are restricted from performing exhaustive searches).
>
>If after a quiescence alpha beta search, you determine that you have lost a
>knight for a pawn, most programs do not search much beyond that to find the
>forced checkmate 4 moves later and hence do not find the sacrifice. The GM, on
>the other hand, may find this.
>
>What this effectively means is that the alpha beta routines "prune" out lines
>which do not look promising, but in actuality are very promising.
>
>For example, let's take the opening. 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3
>
>Most alpha beta programs would prune out the move c4 at ply 3 since there
>appears (via the evaluation routine) for there to be a lot of other moves at
>that point which develop pieces and are stronger. This does not mean that a
>program may not find this on a re-search or something, however, you have to get
>to ply 11 or so to start to appreciate the advantages of c4 and you will never
>get there with a standard alpha beta search. This is the MAIN reason that
>programs without opening books are so weak. The GMs have spent years analyzing
>to some depth various openings and have found moves such as 2. c4 which are
>strong, but a program would not find these moves in any reasonable amount of
>time since it prunes via alpha beta.

this has already been mentioned in another sub-thread, but this is wrong.

your statement implies forward pruning.  Alpha/Beta would actually try the
move c4, but _quickly_ refute it by only looking at the capture at the next
ply.  IE alpha/beta is a "backward-pruning" algorithm rather than "forward-
pruning".  In that you _always follow a sequence of moves to the max search
depth and only _then_ make decisions about pruning as you back up the scores
thru the tree.  _not_ the other way around..




>
>So, in the example of exhaustive 6 ply search, there are many lines dropped via
>alpha beta at ply 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 so that the evaluation routine does not even
>get to compare those nodes at ply 6. If a line is dropped at ply 4, how can you
>evaluate it's grandchildren at ply 6 or ply 9 or ply 12 and find that it is in
>fact actually stronger, not weaker?
>


Alpha/Beta doesn't work like that.  It is a "depth-first" search.  No move
gets dropped at ply 4, unless that move is not needed to prove that the move
at ply=3 was bad.


>Do you still think that I do not understand Alpha Beta? Min Max and Alpha Beta
>are the reasons that other techniques such as null move and razoring, etc. have
>been developed. If we were doing exhaustive search to ply 14 and alpha beta
>search to ply 20 after that, no human in the world could beat the program and
>these other techniques would not be needed.
>
>KarinsDad :)



I don't follow your last paragraph.  As I mentioned before, alpha/beta will
_always_ produce the exact same score and move as a pure brute-force minimax
search to the same depth.  _exactly_...  proven by Knuth/Moore 25 years ago.



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