Author: Mark Young
Date: 20:45:29 05/23/99
Go up one level in this thread
On May 23, 1999 at 23:28:45, Dave Gomboc wrote: >On May 23, 1999 at 23:13:59, Mark Young wrote: > >>On May 23, 1999 at 22:44:04, Roger D Davis wrote: >> >>>It's only one game, certainly, but it doesn't really look like Rebel had much >>>understanding of the game from the time it left book (other's appraisals, not >>>mine), and Rebel's lose supports the argument that the micros have their own >>>weaknesses, and aren't yet a real match for GM players. >>> >>>So where does that leave previous opinions about a DB board for the desktop? >>>We'll have to see what the next months of Rebel-GM games hold, but the market >>>for a DB chip is starting to look better and better. >>> >>>If Rebel consistently loses to the GMs, doesn't this just set the market up for >>>the entry of Hsu? >>> >>>Roger >> >> >>This question must be answerd first: Does the new prototype Rebel 10.5 represent >>the current state of the art? Rebel 10.5 is untested, Rebel 10.5 has not shown >>itself to be in the very top class of programs as CM 6000 and Fritz 5.32 and >>Hiarcs 7. It is clear that Rebel 10.5 had problems (26. f4???)....but the other >>top programs have no problem understand the positions in (Ed's key moves shown >>below). >> >> >>17. e3? >>Blocking its pieces to go the king-side. After this move Ne3, Rg3 (h3) are no >>longer possible. 17.e3 was a last minute decision of Rebel10.5 it had 17.Qd3 >>all the time. Black answers with 17..f5 and now black is the boss on the king- >>side. >> >>*Hiarcs7 plays the correct 17. Qd3* > >We'll have to see what Ed can come up with regarding Rebel's last-minute switch >to e3. In general, I don't think that this game provides significant evidence >that Hiarcs is dramatically better than Rebel. In any case, it would be >foolhardy to make such a conclusion from one game. And no one did, other then to say Rebel 10.5 has not been shown to be the state of the art. Not like the top 3 I have named. And the current state of the art programs like Hiarcs7 plays the correct moves. > >>21.Ra5 exd4 22.Rb5 >>Going for the pawn, nice manoeuvre but definitely wrong. Rebel's score dropped >>from 0.7 to 0.3 (or so) when it saw the danger of Qe2 but that was to few togive >>up the hunt for the pawn. >> >>*Hiarcs7 plays this, but so far has shown that after 22.. Qd8 23. Rxb4! wins. >>Not 23. exd4?! as played by Rebel* > >This is inaccurate. No win has been demonstrated whatsoever. Autoplaying from >a position doesn't prove squat. Until someone can bust the line it is proof, but not proven. I played many program against this position, and myself have tried to bust the move, all attempts has lost to 24. Rxb4. I said nothing inaccurate here, I did not say it proved anything...other then Hiarcs7 has shown this and thinks it to be a win. So this move must be shown wrong to prove the GM Rohde is right that the position is won by move 20. So far I don't see it, other then to see a win for white and for GM Rohde. > >I currently think that White is not only alive and well after Rxb4, but probably >even better. However, "white is winning" is another matter entirely. > >>24.Rxe8?? >>The main positional mistake in my opinion. After this move Rebel is definitely >>lost in all variations. It gives away the crucial e-line. IMO Rebel should have >>played 24.Qd1 >> >>*Hiarcs7 plays the Ed's correct move 24. Qd1, but I have seen no line that shows >>24. Rxe8?? is losing.* > >Qd1 and Rxe8 lead to roughly (or exactly) the same position, don't they? I agree and said so. > >>26.f4? >>I don't now why Rebel10.5 played this move. It's just a matter of search depth >>to see this move is losing material on short term. Rebel10.5 needs 12 plies >>to see the loss and then changes to 26.Bg2 (the good move). I tested the >>current REBEL-CP on this position and nowhere in the log I see the uglyf4? >> >>*Hiarcs7 plays the correct 26. Bg2!!, and no line shown so far has been able to >>prove a win for Black after the correct 26. Bg2* > >Dave
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