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Subject: Re: Crafty 16.7 -- Thanks for the explination

Author: William Bryant

Date: 19:14:10 05/28/99

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On May 28, 1999 at 09:38:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>Here is the problem in your case.  Fine 70 takes 26 plies to solve, and there
>is _no_ way to see winning the pawn any quicker.  So how does crafty find it
>at depth=18?  Poor move ordering somewhere.  What happens is it finds a way to
>win the pawn with black playing poorly, then discovers that it can force a
>position to be reached with black playing perfectly, where this position was
>already reached with black playing poorly and it found that below this position
>even if black plays perfectly it can force a win.  This will be 100% repeatable
>with a serial search.  But with the parallel search, not at all.  And you get
>such wild results.  Normal positions don't behave like this, but fine 70 is
>solved by 'cheating'  (a program with perfect move ordering will take 26 plies
>no matter what).  And this 'cheating' is screwed up by a non-deterministic
>parallel search.

Thank you for this explination.

An early version of my program seemed to find this quickly -  ply 13 or 14 but
as I improved the search, added hash tables, etc. it was unable to find it.  One
of the things I did was try to improve move ordering when I added PVS.

Based on this explination, I reran the position at much longer time controls.
And as expected, after completing the pv search at ply 26, it found Kb1.

I was worried I had introducted even more bugs.

William
wbryant@ix.netcom.com

New Board Position
8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - bm Kb1;
Move 1 W>>
PLY     NODES     TIME   SCORE  PV
____________________________________________
  5       275     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4
  6       543     0:00   +1.10  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kd7
  7      1109     0:00   +1.10  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kd7 Kd3
  8      1486     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7
  9      1994     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4
 10      3150     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 11      4270     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 12      6245     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 13      8655     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 14     13901     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 15     21739     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 16     40467     0:00   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 17     70422     0:01   +1.20  Kb2 Kb6 Kc3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 18    152929     0:02   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6
 19    157027     0:02   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6
 20    782424     0:09   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 21   1061001     0:12   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 22   1516019     0:17   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 23   2294026     0:26   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 24   4604394     0:52   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 25   8159291     1:33   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 26  19884533     3:48   +1.20  Kb2 Ka8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3 Kc7 Kc4 Kb6 Kd3
 26  35671585     6:46   +1.60  Kb1



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