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Subject: Re: zobrist hashing

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 21:06:09 05/28/99

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On May 28, 1999 at 19:33:55, vitor wrote:

>On May 28, 1999 at 18:50:06, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On May 28, 1999 at 18:34:18, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>
>>>On May 28, 1999 at 18:07:17, vitor wrote:
>>>
>>>>as far as i can tell, zobrist hashing seems to be an imperfect(but fast) hashing
>>>>scheme, meaning it is possible that your program will mistake position X as
>>>>position Y.
>>>>
>>>>so my question is:
>>>>is zobrist hashing the current standard in computer chess? is it just an
>>>>accepted risk or are there any perfect hashing schemes that are used?
>>>
>>>Yes, it is the current standard... and an accepted risk.  That risk can be
>>>minimized by using a large enough key.  64 bits is pretty normal today, though
>>>some people use 32+tricks, or 48+tricks.  (Tricks like checking the best move to
>>>make sure it's legal in the position, which is probably a good idea in any
>>>event. :-)  I don't know of anyone using a perfect hashing scheme for a playing
>>>program, but this doesn't mean it isn't possible.
>>For a perfect hashing scheme, the width of the key will have to be log2(possible
>>positions) bits wide.  We could use it as our mapping to all possible chess
>>positions.  If anybody finds one, please let me know. ;-)
>>
>>BTW, that would be one whopper of a hash table!
>
>even with a simple position represention of 256 bits, we would have perfect
>hashing that is about 4 times more expensive (both memory and speed-wise) than a
>64bit zobrist. maybe perfection for $4 is too much when you can get good enough
>for $1.


I don't follow.  The definition of hashing is to take an N bit quantity, and
turn it into an M bit quantity, where N > M.  Otherwise it isn't 'hashing' it
is 'mapping'.  There is no way to 'perfectly' squash N bits into M bits, when
N > M.



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