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Subject: Re: Nimzo99 MMX - Hiarcs 6 P90 SSDF game 12/20 1-0 Now: 10 - 2

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 20:11:00 05/29/99

Go up one level in this thread


On May 29, 1999 at 22:11:57, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:

>
>On May 29, 1999 at 15:59:32, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On May 29, 1999 at 14:05:29, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On May 29, 1999 at 11:16:22, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 10:09:02, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't understand how you can seriously give credence to this match when you
>>>>>are running Nimzo on superior hardware. The advantage of Nimzo on a Pentium 200
>>>>>MMX is not to be taken lightly. Regardless, Hiarcs 6 is outdated by Hiarcs 7 and
>>>>>the Hash tables in Hiarcs 7 is much higher than what you listed for Hiarcs 6. My
>>>>>main point is that when testing chess programs, you should test them on the SAME
>>>>>type of computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Mel
>>>>
>>>>No, he shouldn't.  He should report the speed of the processor and the version
>>>>of the software, just as he has.
>>>
>>>If you support this kind of testing, good luck on trying to get meaningful
>>>evaluations. I think you're getting into more of a hypothetical circumstance
>>>here with uneven testing.
>>
>>Are you suggestions that more meaningful evaluations are achieved by a closed
>>group of 8 or so "newest version" programs on "latest" hardware?  How will you
>>understand how good these are relative to older programs without
>>intergenerational competition?  Besides, the larger player pool due to the
>>increased number of hardware/software combinations will provide more reliable
>>relative ratings for even the latest programs on the latest hardware.
>>
>>>>"Hiarcs 6, P90", "Hiarcs 7, P200MMX", and "Hiarcs 7, K2-450" are all different
>>>>entities that can be expected to have significantly different ratings.  That a
>>>>newer hardware/software combination exists does not make it invalid or even
>>>>useless to assess the strength of an older one.
>>>
>>>I believe Nimzo 99 is a newer program than Hiarcs 6. If that is the case, it
>>>would futher support uneven testing. How many people would be interested in how
>>>Hiarcs 6 does against..as opposed to Hiarcs 7 against...?. Furthermore, who is
>>>still selling Hiarcs 6???
>>
>>It doesn't matter if anyone is still selling it or not.  Hiarcs 6/P90 still
>>provides an important performance benchmark for comparison.
>>
>>Even if this were not true, it is still the case that not everybody upgrades
>>their hardware and software every year.
>>
>>>I'm not saying there is absolutely no purpose in testing outdated software, but
>>>rather time and testing could be put to better use.
>>
>>I think the use it is being put to is very good.  The person has a spare P90
>>lying around, he might as well get some SSDF testing in.
>>
>>>Mel>
>>
>>Dave
>
>I will refer you to a posting by Robert Hyatt on 5/29 with the heading "Re:
>Uneven hardware". I will quote word for word, you can look at the posting if you
>don't believe what I quote:
>
>"If program A on hardware B beats program D on hardware E - does that say much
>about A compared to B? This belies the principles of science - you have to have
>a uniform platform for all participants to make any kind of judgement".
>Now, does that make it any clearer, or do you think Mr. Hyatt is also wrong?
>Hmmm?? By the way, my opinion posted on this matter was BEFORE I found Mr.
>Hyatt's statement quoted above.
>
>Mel

I am not claiming that "program A on hardware B beats program D on hardware E
implies that program A is better than program D".  You are trying to reach such
a conclusion, and that is why you're at odds with everyone about this.

Dave



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