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Subject: Re: To Mel: you misquoted Dr. Hyatt.

Author: Melvin S. Schwartz

Date: 16:41:46 05/30/99

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On May 30, 1999 at 17:20:09, Mark Young wrote:

>On May 30, 1999 at 16:55:42, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>
>>On May 30, 1999 at 16:27:57, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On May 30, 1999 at 16:04:43, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On May 30, 1999 at 14:36:35, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 30, 1999 at 14:23:19, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Mel,
>>>>>>      here it goes a fragment of a post by Dr. Hyatt you are constantly referring in
>>>>>>the thread about SSDF testing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>On May 27, 1999 at 15:51:59, Prakash Das wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well, I still don't understand the point of this "world championship" then. Sure
>>>>>>>, you can call it "hey, if nothing it will be fun", a "test of systems", etc.
>>>>>>>But what are exactly is this exercise trying to prove? If program A on hardware
>>>>>>>B, beats program D on hardware E - does that say much about A compared to B?
>>>>>>>This belies the principles of science - you have to have a uniform platform
>>>>>>>for all participants to make any kind of judgement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't understand what you don't understand.  This is an "open" competition.
>>>>>>Anything is allowed.  Any sort of hardware and software combination that can
>>>>>>play chess.  It has _always_ been that way.  It will always be that way.  The
>>>>>>question being asked is "what is the strongest electronic chessplayer on the
>>>>>>planet?"  Not "what is the strongest program?"  Or "Who is best on equal
>>>>>>hardware?"  or anything else...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      As you can see, you were attributing to Dr. Hyatt words by Prakash Das.
>>>>>>José.
>>>>>
>>>>>As Homer Simpson would say in Mels place....DOH!!
>>>>
>>>>My dear fellow,
>>>>
>>>>You seem to enjoy starting an argument and pursuing it to no end. You also have
>>>>some character flaw that makes you want to be insulting.
>>>
>>>Because you seemed to be so confused about SSDF, Testing, and the Rating system.
>>>It is no wonder you are also confused about this. If you check the thread. You
>>>are the one that posted to me. I addressed my post to Hans Christian Lykke.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now, I will address your rather crude comment - no doubt from a rather rude
>>>>individual.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but you are the one floating a flase Quote from Dr. Hyatt and giving this
>>>as proof that we are wrong and Dr. Hyatt agrees with you. Sorry that is funny.
>>>And as I said before I don't think Dr. Hyatt would agree with you...
>>>
>>>>
>>>>The fact I used the wrong author of my quote does not change my position. If you
>>>>or Dr. Hyatt feel it is not important to test programs on equal software - have
>>>>a nice day!
>>>
>>>I always have a nice day...
>>
>>Take a look at the post by Timothy J. Frolick on 5/29.
>
>--------------
>You are correct.  It is not always possible to have two identical computers and
>the same time.  To be "perfectly scientific" we should decrease the number of
>variables.  Since we can't always do that we resort to statistics.  You will
>note that Hiarcs will win a certain percentage of the time.  Now if Hiarcs were
>winning half of the games it would be at least 80 points stronger than Nimzo
>because of the 2.3 fold increase in processor speed.  So the point is not the
>winning of the games but rather the percentage won.
>I assure you that the person doing the testing does not have a desire to skew
>the results.  Don't have hard feelings over these posts.  Knowledge is a
>cumulative endeavor and tomorrows computers and programs will make mincemeat of
>all of todays machines.  We have to keep testing in order to improve the things.
>Tim Frohlick
>--------------------
> Look, you still don't get the point here. I agree with the above post, it isn't
>"fair" to pit one program against another with one of them on a lesser machine
>and then when the one on the better machine wins to claim it is a better
>program. However, that has nothing to do with the SSDF and their methods. This
>is not match play, it is a method for determining a rating. These two things are
>not the same. The SSDF takes a program and puts it on multiple types of
>computers and establishes a rating for the program on that paticular hardware.
>For instance, program "A" will be put on a P90 and on a P200. Both of these will
>be considered a seperate entity. Both will establish its own seperate rating.
>Therefore over time the SSDF will establish a stable rating for program "A" on a
>P90, and a stable rating for program "A" on a P200. This then gives the SSDF a
>good benchmark by which to establish the rating of program "B" which may also be
>tested on a P90 and a P200, or as is done now only on a P200. In the end the
>SSDF winds up with a lot of programs with stable ratings that can be used to
>benchmark even more programs and so on and so on. There is nothing here that is
>at all unfair. Each program establishes its own rating for a particular
>hardware. Now I feel like I'm teaching kindergarten here, so I hope you finally
>get it.
>
>Mark

I think you belong in kindergarten!
Mel



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