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Subject: Re: Did Dr. Hyatt really say that?

Author: Hans Christian Lykke

Date: 04:29:40 06/01/99

Go up one level in this thread


On May 31, 1999 at 21:00:39, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:

>
>On May 30, 1999 at 13:32:29, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:
>
>>On May 29, 1999 at 22:00:35, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On May 29, 1999 at 21:26:39, Mark Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 20:30:24, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 18:42:22, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 15:06:14, Hans Christian Lykke wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 14:05:29, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 11:16:22, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 29, 1999 at 10:09:02, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I don't understand how you can seriously give credence to this match when you
>>>>>>>>>>are running Nimzo on superior hardware. The advantage of Nimzo on a Pentium 200
>>>>>>>>>>MMX is not to be taken lightly. Regardless, Hiarcs 6 is outdated by Hiarcs 7 and
>>>>>>>>>>the Hash tables in Hiarcs 7 is much higher than what you listed for Hiarcs 6. My
>>>>>>>>>>main point is that when testing chess programs, you should test them on the SAME
>>>>>>>>>>type of computer.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>Mel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No, he shouldn't.  He should report the speed of the processor and the version
>>>>>>>>>of the software, just as he has.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If you support this kind of testing, good luck on trying to get meaningful
>>>>>>>>evaluations. I think you're getting into more of a hypothetical circumstance
>>>>>>>>here with uneven testing.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>"Hiarcs 6, P90", "Hiarcs 7, P200MMX", and "Hiarcs 7, K2-450" are all different
>>>>>>>>>entities that can be expected to have significantly different ratings.  That a
>>>>>>>>>newer hardware/software combination exists does not make it invalid or even
>>>>>>>>>useless to assess the strength of an older one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I believe Nimzo 99 is a newer program than Hiarcs 6. If that is the case, it
>>>>>>>>would futher support uneven testing. How many people would be interested in how
>>>>>>>>Hiarcs 6 does against..as opposed to Hiarcs 7 against...?. Furthermore, who is
>>>>>>>>still selling Hiarcs 6???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm not saying there is absolutely no purpose in testing outdated software, but
>>>>>>>>rather time and testing could be put to better use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have two P200MMX computers and one P90
>>>>>>>Sometimes I use one of the P200 to other things than playing SSDF games.
>>>>>>>To get more SSDF games, I then play P200 against P90.
>>>>>>>I will continue that way, no matter what you say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As you know SSDF's method is sound. People have a hard time understanding how a
>>>>>>ratings system works. It is meaningless what hardward and how old or new the
>>>>>>program is when testing, what is importent for testing is that you have a firm
>>>>>>rating to start testing against. The programs with ratings on P90 hardware meet
>>>>>>this, without having a rating to weak to play programs on P200 hardware. Yes as
>>>>>>we know this is a mismatch playing P90 vs P200 hardware, but not in terms of how
>>>>>>a ratings system works or the final ratings when testing is done.
>>>>>
>>>>>I absolutely disagree. The speed of a computer does without question affect the
>>>>>performance one can obtain with software. To say it is not relevant that Hiarcs
>>>>>6 is running on a P90 versus any other program running on 200MMX is not
>>>>>affecting the rating status of Hiarcs 6 is in my opinion ludicrous! If you check
>>>>>out Shep's site, you'll see he runs tounaments at 40/2 with chess software all
>>>>>running on the SAME TYPE OF COMPUTER. That is the ONLY fair way to compare A
>>>>>against B.
>>>>
>>>>With all due respect, you do not know what you are talking about. Yes it affect
>>>>the performance of the match results, it should (90 vs 200). You must understand
>>>>SSDF is a ratings based list, Not a Match results list. If you look the SSDF you
>>>>will see 2 ratings for hiarcs6. one on a P90 and one on a P200...
>>>>
>>>So, I don't know what I'm talking about? Well, let me refer you to the posting
>>>on 5/29 under the heading Re: Uneven Hardware by Robert Hyatt, and I quote:
>>>
>>>"If program A on hardware B beats program D on hardware E - does that say much
>>>about A compared to B? This belies the principles of science - you have to have
>>>a uniform platform for all participants to make any kind of judgement".
>>>
>>>Now, Mr. Young, do you get the point? Or do you believe that Mr. Hyatt also
>>>doesn't know what he's talking about? Hmmm???
>>>
>>
>>Hi Mel,
>>       I have the impression that you are confusing posters. I think you are quoting
>>Prakash Das, in a post that Dr. Hyatt answered.
>>José.
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Venlig hilsen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hans Chr. Lykke
>>>>>>>http://home3.inet.tele.dk/hclykke/
>Hi Jose,
>
>It really doesn't matter anymore because Tony Hedlund at SSDF has responded with
>complete agreement with the quote of "Mr. Hyatt" that we all now know was really
>Prakash Das. The important thing is that Mr. Hedlund AGREES with my quote!!!
>
>Mel

Here is what´s written

Mel:

>That was quoted word for word from his posting on "Uneven Hardware dated
>5/29/99. I understand that to mean in order to get a true evaluation you must
>compare both programs on the same type of proceesor.

Tony Hedlund:
That's correct. When we have tested Fritz5.32 AMD K6-2 450MHz, 128MB against our
pool you can compare it to Junior5 AMD K6-2 450 MHz, 128MB.
----------
I understand it this way. SSDF will continue testing the way we do.
We´ll play P200MMX vs. P90, P200MMX vs P200MMX, K6-2 vs P200MMX, K6-2 450 vs
K6-2 450 and so on.
There is nothing new here.
And I think that Tony means that´s the way to do it.

Venlig hilsen

Hans Chr. Lykke






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