Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: The last bug in Fritz 5.32 ?

Author: Bernhard Bauer

Date: 23:58:38 06/01/99

Go up one level in this thread


On June 01, 1999 at 11:56:42, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On June 01, 1999 at 05:51:49, Bernhard Bauer wrote:
>
>>You surely know how Crafty uses null move. From search.c you can see:
>
>(snip)
>
>>Bob Hyatt doesn't use null move if there are "few" pieces on the board. That
>>could be viewed as low mobility. Of course other views are possible.
>
>This rule is simple but too simple. There are ways to get much better
>performances in the endgame. But of course you have to live with a few
>"holes"...
>
>
>>Zugzwang detection is another thing that may help.
>
>But "zugzwang detection" does not exist! If somebody is able to write a
>"zugzwang detection" routine, then the problem is solved. But there is no easy
>way to detect that a side is in zugzwang, except by doing a search. And the cost
>is too high.
>
>
>>This "smart" choice makes you (and the users of your program) sad when your
>>program fails to solve a certain position.
>
>I keep an algorithm when it makes me more happy than sad. :)
>
>
>>>>The explanation "the computer can't do it" has proven wrong in decades.
>>>
>>>I don't understand why you say this... Did I say that the computer can't do it?
>>>My program does it for example.
>>>
>>No you haven't said this. I do not argue against you. I simply don't like the
>>holes in the programs. I want them to disapea.
>
>Don't you think I want the same?
>
>But "holes" are not the only problems chess programs have to face. You look
>stupid when somebody finds a hole in your program, but you look also stupid when
>your program is not able to compute deep enough to find a combination that other
>programs see quickly.
>
>Don't focus too much on holes. If you do, then what you will get is a simple
>alphabeta program with no selection at all. There will be no holes, but it will
>takes ages to find simple things...
>
>
>>>>The question remains: what is the best way to do it. There are ways that will
>>>>not slow down your program and will succeed in other positions.
>>>
>>>I am all hears. Tell us how it is possible.
>>>
>>See above and have a look at Tiger. As Tiger solves the 2-mover you have
>>allready implemented something thats better than in Fritz.
>
>But Tiger fails also badly on some other positions... And you would complain if
>you would find them... So it's a neverending story.
>
>
>>>>So I hope you can understand my point of view.
>>>
>>>Not if you tell me that I'm taking poor decisions.
>>>
>>A decision that leads to the wrong result for the gain of speed is poor.
>>Finding a result in a somewhat long time is better than finding it never.
>
>I agree. That's why some of my selection algorithms are enabled only in the
>deeper parts of the tree. I can miss something, but with longer time I will not
>miss it anymore.
>
>
>
>    Christophe

Thank you for your contributions which have clarified a lot.
I think we are allready agreeing. The whole field is difficult, but there are
many programs in development and the programs become better.
I wish you good luck for the WCC.

Kind regards
Bernhard
programs in development - and



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.