Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 18:29:22 06/05/99
Go up one level in this thread
On June 05, 1999 at 11:01:14, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On June 05, 1999 at 06:37:48, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>Their is a weird account at ICC called DeepViolet.
>>The facts about it:
>>
>> a) the operator is a nice fellow
>> b) when it entered icc many years ago
>> it had the same rating like scratchy (deep blue). didn't go up
>> much since then.
>
>
>this isn't correct. Check this out. I have _every_ ICC game crafty/scrappy
>have ever played. Here is a 1996 game:
Yes i missed it before start of 1997 deepviolet slowly got up.
>[DeepViolet (2358) vs. scrappy (2177) --- Mon Nov 25, 04:13 PM EST, 1996]
>This was at a time when crafty was 2550 (pentium 133 or P6/200) while scrappy
>was running on my P5/75 notebook. At this point scratchy's rating was 2800+
>and the next closest human was 2500 or so.
>
>
>
>> c) i have not seen it lose because of tactical mistakes yet, so
>> tactical it's at ferret level.
>> d) it makes the weird deep blue Bxg3 mistake, yet plays
>> very strong further
>> e) its rating is way higher than zarkovx (which has not only
>> a high similar style as deepviolet, but from experiments
>> also plays positional similar to deep blue).
>> f) finger says deepviolet plays at a PII-266. operator told me
>> PII-333, and updated recently his finger.
>> ZarkovX runs unattended at a K6-3 at 475Mhz. zarkov runs way faster
>> on a K6 than on a PII at same speeds. This K6-3 at 475 is for
>> crafty though and for DIEP exactly as fast as a PII-450. For zarkov
>> it's more like a PII-650Mhz.
>> g) operator needs 18 seconds increment, a level which is only
>> needed if you are way older than 75 or operating hardware or
>> a parallel system. Operators of Rebel use 8 seconds a move (very seldom
>> 9 seconds). operators of windows programs use 4 seconds a move
>> (this all loss because of operating).
>
>
>I don't follow the 'parallel hardware' comment. Cray Blitz used 16 cpus and
>played dozens of 5 0 games with me manually operating. In fact, we played with
>the _real_ chess clock, and relied on my typing speed to not lose on time.
>There doesn't have to be a big delay to get going. DT played lots of speed
>games at the various ACM events with no problems at all...
in 1998 zugzwang lost average 45 seconds against diep a move and not
because of the operator who played at the go server, but because of
parallellism (non shared).
darkthought also has nice features. it has no takeback function.
i don't doubt operating times needed by programs written by you Bob, but
commercial programs just don't need this much time.
>
>> h) he already plays for years 2 18. a very consequent man this operator.
>>
>>fingering scratchy:
>>
>>Information about scratchy(C) (Last disconnected Wed Mar 13 1996 19:25):
>>
>> rating [need] win loss draw total best
>>Blitz 2871 [8] 141 1 4 146
>>Standard 2781 [6] 374 14 37 425
>>
>> 1: Meow. I am a seafood gourmet.
>>
>>
>>Information about DeepViolet(C) (Last disconnected Tue Jun 01 1999 22:09):
>>
>> rating [need] win loss draw total best
>>Blitz 2857 203 105 78 386 2898 (20-Sep-1998)
>>Standard 2508 [6] 94 45 21 160 2526 (02-Oct-1998)
>>
>> 1: DeepViolet is an experimental chess program developed by several graduate
>> 2: students in the Virgin Islands and maintained by the DeepViolet Laboratories
>> 3: in Northern NJ. We appreciate the stronger players taking the time
>> 4: for matches with DV, and especially welcome matches from other
>> 5: computers. This is version 4.0 and is manually operated, requiring
>> 6: the large increment (2 18 r) for blitz games. Thank you for your
>> 7: patience. DeepViolet now runs on a 333mhz Pentium II with 64 megs RAM.
>>
>> Address : octo@intercall.com
>>
>>Nowadays 2800 is not much that much anymore for programs at the internet:
>>
>>Statistics for crafty(C) On for:31:21 Idle: 1
>>
>> rating [need] win loss draw total best
>>Wild 2113 [6] 185 50 8 243 2118 (17-Jan-1999)
>>Bullet 2969 5703 1363 927 7993 3108 (04-Jul-1997)
>>Blitz 2912 45140 12385 7824 65349 3187 (09-Apr-1999)
>>Standard 2655 3333 1322 883 5538 2720 (16-May-1999)
>>
>> 1: Crafty v16.10 (4 cpus)
>> 2: crafty now uses all 3/4/5 piece endgame databases, over 20gb.
>> 3: Intel 486/66, 4mb, 40mb EIDE disk
>> 4: Accumulated hours: 26,500 % of life on icc: 75.54
>> 5: Crafty is freely available, both source and a windows executable, for those
>>that don't have unix machines they can compile on.
>> 6: anonymous ftp to ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt
>> 7: Note that I generally +noplay computers that don't fill in their notes with
>>the program and machine being used...
>> 8: note to computer operators: if you are only interested in rating points, as
>>verified by only matching crafty when it is rated higher than you, but not when
>>it is lower, then expect to end up on its +noplay list.
>> 9: also note that _any_ computer operator that interrupts a GM/IM match will be
>>+censored and it will be permanent.. If crafty is playing a human do _not_
>>interrupt and jump in between games.
>>10: I like playing "rabid".. it inflates my rating. :)
>>
>>finger ferret:
>>
>>Information about Ferret(C) (Last disconnected Fri Apr 30 1999 22:54):
>>
>> rating [need] win loss draw total best
>>Wild 2618 [6] 2 0 0 2
>>Bullet 2930 [8] 2027 498 372 2897 3155 (28-Jun-1998)
>>Blitz 3132 [8] 11469 2416 2638 16523 3132 (30-Apr-1999)
>>Standard 2720 [6] 663 218 237 1118 2825 (01-Apr-1998)
>>
>> 1: Ferret. Xeon 450 mhz x 4
>> 2: Message me and I'll put you on my spam list, these people will get email
>>when Ferret is released for public consumption (no other use will be made of
>>this list).
>> 3: I am automatic and mostly unattended. Autoflag is on. I will not resign,
>>give takebacks, or accept or offer draws, unless the operator is present. I
>>reserve the right to decline any challenge.
>> 4: "finger schroer" for information on high quality lessons, etc.
>> 5: Please send any comments via ICC "message" command to Mouse or Ferret.
>> 6: If you get computer assistance during games, but are not on the computer
>>list (no "C" after your name), please read "help computer" and stay away from me
>>completely if you wish to continue to cheat.
>> 7: I'll play unrated fast blitz with any registered player (5 2, 4 4, 3 5, 2 7,
>>or faster).
>> 8: I'll play rated 2 0 bullet, rated slower blitz (no 3 0 or 4 0), or quick
>>rated standard (30 0, etc.), with any established human over 2400, or any other
>>established player (including computers) within 300 points.
>> 9: Please play an even number of games at a given time control, and no
>>auto-rematch please.
>>10: 1995 world microcomputer amateur chess champion, 1996-1997 world
>>microcomputer speed chess champion
>>
>> Address : brucemo@seanet.com
>>
>>Search deepviolet:
>>
>>[Event "ICC 2 18"]
>>[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
>>[Date "1999.05.19"]
>>[White "DiepX (4 processor version)"]
>>[Black "DeepViolet"]
>>[Opening "Ruy Lopez: modern Steinitz defense, 5.O-O"]
>>[ECO "C72"]
>>
>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 d6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c3 Nge7 7. d4 Ng6 8.
>>Re1 Be7 9. Nbd2 O-O 10. Nf1 Nh4 11. Nxh4 Bxh4 12. Ng3 exd4 13. cxd4 Re8 14.
>>Bxc6 Bxc6 15. d5 Bb5 16. Bd2 Bxg3? 17. hxg3 c5 18. Bf4 a5 19. Qb3
>>{Game courtesyadjourned by White}
>>
>>The 16..Bxg3 move was funny and quite laughable. DIEP doesn't even
>>*consider* bxg3 of course. I tried several ZarkovX versions:
>>don't even *consider* Bxg3 either.
>>
>>Now this bxg3 gets made by more programs, i don't know why actually, it's
>>a beginnersmistake in chess. Giving up the bishop pair AND giving white a
>>nice g3 pawn.
>>
>>Now let's get to a game fragment
>>
>> DeepViolet - other program
>> 1. d4 (0:05) Nf6 (0:06)
>> 2. c4 (0:05) g6 (0:04)
>> 3. g3 (0:05) c6 (0:04)
>> 4. Bg2 (0:07) d5 (0:04)
>> 5. cxd5 (0:06) cxd5 (0:04)
>> 6. Nc3 (0:07) Nc6 (0:04)
>> 7. Nf3 (0:27) Bg7 (0:06)
>>Weird, but not all programs play Nf3
>>
>> 8. O-O (0:19) Ne4 (0:10)
>> 9. Bf4 (0:39) O-O (0:09)
>>Most prefer Bg5
>>
>> 10. Rc1 (0:25) Be6 (0:06)
>>
>>
>> 11. e3 (0:29) f6 (0:39)
>>e3? the opponent of deepviolet would have made the same mistake
>>
>>
>>
>> 12. Qb3 (0:29) Qd7 (0:31)
>> 13. h4 (0:07) h6 (0:12)
>> 14. g4 (0:33) Rad8 (0:44)
>> 15. Rb1 (0:38) g5 (0:28)
>>
>>Now this is a weird move 15. Rb1. it's laughably bad.
>>it's not a tactical blunder though. I see junior at huge depth
>>get to the same move. Zarkov is the only program that could reproduce
>>this move, but deepviolet definitely isn't zarkov at a PII-333.
>>It isn't zarkov at all.
>Crafty may well do that as well. I have been looking at it to see why
>this happens occasionally...
deepviolet definitely isn't crafty. You told me it might be a
cray blitz version, but it simply doesn't consider a few of those moves,
so we can forget cray blitz also.
>> 16. Bh2 (0:24) Rf7 (0:46)
>> 17. Rfc1 (0:33) Bxg4 (0:25)
>> 18. Nxe4 (0:37) dxe4 (0:10)
>> 19. Nd2 (0:06) f5 (0:31)
>> 20. hxg5 (0:06) hxg5 (0:08)
>> 21. f3 (0:13) Bh5 (0:17)
>> 22. fxe4 (0:11) Nxd4 (0:09)
>> 23. exd4 (0:09) Qxd4+ (0:06)
>> 24. Kh1 (0:07) Qxd2 (0:12)
>> 25. exf5 (0:08) Bg4 (0:42)
>> 26. Rc7 (0:25) Qe2 (0:20)
>> 27. Rc2 (0:11) Qd3 (0:10)
>> 28. Qxd3 (0:07) Rxd3 (0:07)
>> 29. Rc8+ (0:12) Kh7 (0:10)
>> 30. Rc7 (0:40) Bxf5 (0:18)
>> 31. Rxb7 (0:07) Bd4 (0:49)
>> 32. Bg1 (0:37) Kg6 (0:22)
>> 33. Bxd4 (0:06) Rxd4 (0:15)
>> 34. Rc1 (0:12) a6 (0:47)
>> 35. Ra7 (0:43) Bd3 (0:06)
>> 36. Kg1 (0:11) Bb5 (0:32)
>> etcetera of course white lost it
>>
>>So i give here 4 moves:
>>
>>16..Bxg3?
>>7.Nf3
>>9.Bg5
>>15.Rb1
>>
>>I haven't found a program yet that makes all those moves in blitz,
>>or a minute later.
>>
>>Can someone try all his programs at home at these 4 positions and see
>>whether these 4 moves get the mainline.
>>
>>I like to solve this deepviolet mystery. It is not
>> zarkov 4.5 4.0
>> diep
>> fritz
>> junior
>> wchess
>> genius 6.0
>>
>>So what softwareprogram/hardwarecomputer is it then?
[this statement not meant to Bob but to all other dudes reading it]
Does no one have software at home?
Please TEST with your programs at home dudes what program it is, or
what it is not. If we know what it is not, then we have a small clue
what it is.
I don't buy the Bruce story that it's a homebrew program, which is
unknown to us. Just playing a few games at icc don't make a program play
like this.
Greetings,
Vincent
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