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Subject: Re: Hiarcs 7.32 and Fritz 5.32

Author: Melvin S. Schwartz

Date: 20:37:07 06/07/99

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On June 07, 1999 at 20:24:59, blass uri wrote:

>
>On June 07, 1999 at 19:49:17, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>
>>On June 07, 1999 at 12:37:07, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On June 07, 1999 at 11:16:13, Shep wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 07, 1999 at 10:15:55, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Since Hiarcs 7.32 and Fritz 5.32 are condidered to be two of the best three
>>>>>prgrams available, if not the two best, wouldn't it be inteesting to run Hiarcs
>>>>>in Fritz, or Fritz in Hiarcs, and have Fritz play tactical and Hiarcs play
>>>>>positional positions? Of course the question then becomes, would the program
>>>>>accurately know when to switch? Anybody have thoughts on this?
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately, it is not very clear how Fritz differentiates between these
>>>>types. I noticed that, running the Louguet suite, even most of the POS subsuite
>>>>is considered "Tactical" by Fritz (IIRC only 5/14 are "positional" for Fritz).
>>>>
>>>>I have played some games with T:Fritz P/E:Junior (I called this combination
>>>>"ClaireChess" on SCCS) and noticed that either almost the whole game was played
>>>>by one engine alone or there was exactly one point where Fritz switched from one
>>>>engine to the other and never switched back again.
>>>>
>>>>I think Chessbase will sooner or later have to make this function modular and
>>>>programmable because it is still very difficult to decided which positions are
>>>>tactical and which aren't.
>>>
>>>There is a simple solution.
>>>look for the first 5 options for 1% of your time.
>>>If the difference between  the best move and the 5th best move is more than a
>>>pawn then the position is tactical otherwise it is positional.
>>>
>>>You can change the numbers but the idea is clear.
>>>
>>>This is of course not a perfect solution but does someone has a better idea?
>>>
>>>
>>>I do not know if Fritz5.32 is better in tactical positions.
>>
>>Whether they are right or wrong, I'll present my sources for saying Fritz is
>>better in tactical positions. Mr. Giehring at Chessbase sent me a message, which
>>I have saved, stating Fritz 5.32 is slightly better in tactical positions than
>>Hiarcs 7.32. Also, in a review by Claudio Bollini, which can be read at this
>>site, he shows a diagram based on a particular test done to evaluate different
>>programs that I believe indicates Fritz to be better at tactics.
>>
>>>I read that Hiarcs7 is a good solver so it is good at tactics and I know about
>>>ssdf games that Fritz5.32 won Hiarcs7 because of better endgame play and not
>>>because of tactics.
>>
>>This is very surprising in light of the review of Hiarcs 7 where in the "endgame
>>hits test" Hiarcs was excellent along with MC8. I believe he rated those two as
>>tops in endgame play according to the "hits"test.
>>
>>>Does someone has a proof that Fritz is better than Hiarcs7 or Junior in
>>>practical tactical positions?
>>
>>I believe you think quite highly of Junior. For that reason I am baffled by
>>Junior's poor showing in SSDF testing. How do you compare Junior 5 against
>>Hiarcs 7 and Fritz 5.32 in overall playing strength, and by what criteria do you
>>base your conclusion?
>
>I know that James walker did a match between Junior5 and Fritz5.32
>(90 minutes per 40 moves) and the result was 6:6
>
>I know that Junior5 lost 28.5:11.5 against Hiarcs7  but the problem is that the
>games are not public.
>
>Junior5 did better results in public games against Hiarcs7.
>I know that it won Hiarcs7 6:4 in enrique games(40 minutes per 40 moves on a
>fast pentium)
>
>I also read that Hiarcs7.32 had problems against Junior5 in the test games
>and I did not read about results like 28.5:11.5
>
>Junior5 earns more speed from the fast computers relative to Fritz5.32 or
>Hiarcs7
>
>Here are the numbers:
>
>AMD K6-2 450 vs P200MMX
>
>Speed improvement:
>
>Fritz3  130%
>Genius2 119%
>Gandalf3 84%
>McP6    117%
>Rebel8  148%
>Hiarcs7.01  137%=2.37 times faster
>Fritz5.32   114%=2.14 times faster
>Junior5     142%=2.42 times faster
>Shreddr3    106%
>Nimzo98     147%

I know that at 40/2 with a 200MHz processor, Fritz needs 72 megs of RAM. At 40/2
with a 400 MHz processor, Fritz needs 144 megs of RAM. Without knowing more
details from your posting above, it is impossible for me to come to a valid
conclusion. I don't know if Junior uses Hash Tables in the same way Fritz does,
but I do know Hiarcs does not. If you could provide the time control used for
the above test and Fritz's allocated Hash Table usage, then I could evaluate the
above with more authenticity. Unless of course, the time control and Hash Table
total are both irrelevant?

Mel>
>Uri



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