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Subject: Re: Fritz is still King of Blitz

Author: James Robertson

Date: 19:48:44 06/18/99

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On June 17, 1999 at 19:38:52, Eugene Nalimov wrote:

>On June 17, 1999 at 19:32:49, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>
>>On June 17, 1999 at 19:21:19, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>
>>>On June 17, 1999 at 18:49:18, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On June 17, 1999 at 18:41:09, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 17, 1999 at 18:33:50, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 17, 1999 at 17:58:22, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I finished my first 200 games today between Fritz 5.32 and Hiarcs 7.32.  The
>>>>>>>games were played at game/5min.  They were run using auto232 operation.  Fritz
>>>>>>>had a K6-2-400 for 100 games and then swapped and took the PII 333 for the
>>>>>>>second 100 games and vice versa.  Fritz used the F5 opening book and Hiarcs used
>>>>>>>it's own book.  Hiarcs had all 3/4 man tablebases plus the 5man tablebases
>>>>>>>supplied on the CD plus about 10 more 5 man tablebases. (I don't have them all)
>>>>>>>Fritz won the match 106.5-93.5 indicating about a 22 point superiority at blitz.
>>>>>>> Of course only 200 games leaves some doubt and I will run another set later but
>>>>>>>now I want to play 200 games with Hiarcs 7.32 vs Junior 5.0.  By the way Hiarcs
>>>>>>>turned at least one win into a draw because of the tablebases.  It was a KPPKP
>>>>>>>endgame which is supplied with the Hiarcs CD.  The problem is there is no KQPKP
>>>>>>>tablebase so when Hiarcs got the pawn to the 2nd rank (With Black) it did not
>>>>>>>know how to win the game and got stuck in 3 time rep with Mate in 7 showing in
>>>>>>>the window?!  I had this same problem with another program which prompted a
>>>>>>>question a few weeks ago.  Bob Hyatt says that the only way to use the
>>>>>>>tablebases is to have them all.  I believe it but apparently some programmers do
>>>>>>>not.  At a minimum you need the promotion tablebases if you have the pawn
>>>>>>>tablebases.
>>>>>>>Jim Walker
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually, there is a solution for a missing promotion TBs. It was suggested
>>>>>>several times in the Crafty mail list, but Bob is unwilling to implement it - my
>>>>>>guess is that it is going against his sense of aesthetic, because it work not
>>>>>>100% of the time:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(1) If you have MATE-in-M in the root position,
>>>>>>(2) No one of the moves lead to MATE-in-(M-1),
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then throw away the moves that lead to TBs draws, loses, or MATE-in-(>=M), turn
>>>>>>off TB probing for N pieces (where N is # of the pieces at the root), and start
>>>>>>normal search. There is some analogue between this approach and current approach
>>>>>>when Crafty tries to exploit opponent's error in a draw position - if it's ahead
>>>>>>on the material in the draw position, it throw away losing moves and searches
>>>>>>remainining once with it's normal evaluation function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course Bob will say that the full TBs set can reside at a $120 disk. The
>>>>>>problem is that not many people (let alone IMs and GMs) will spend $120 for that
>>>>>>dedicated disk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BTW, were there games at WCCC9 where TBs affected the result? If I remember it
>>>>>>correctly, somebody here is doing his/her private match between Hiarcs and
>>>>>>Fritz, and among the first 10 games 4-man TBs already helped Hiarcs. So, 0.5
>>>>>>points from 10.
>>>>>
>>>>>I put 512MB of ram in my computer the max for my mother board. The TB generator
>>>>>says it takes more memory then this to create the KQPKQ TB. Im I out of luck, or
>>>>>will it still create the TB using disk memory?
>>>>>
>>>>Hello Mark,
>>>>
>>>>I believe you need about 8 gigs of space available to get the full Nalimov
>>>>tablebases on your harddrive. For just the 4-man tablebases I believe less than
>>>>2 gigs will do it.
>>>
>>>5.9Gb for the entire 3+2 man set. All 4 man *plus* KRPKR *plus* KRPKR promotions
>>>occupy 294Mb.
>>
>>Hello Eugene,
>>
>>I know that 3 feet equal 1 yard but 294MB? Is that 29GB?
>>Why did you use GB in the first sentence and then KB in the second sentence? Are
>>you trying to confuse me? :)
>>
>>Mel>
>>>Eugene
>>>
>>>>Mel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Eugene
>
>Hello Mel,
>
>I learn that 3 feet equal 1 yard only 2.5 years ago... But at least now I know
>that!
>
>1Mb is (roughly) 1/1000 of 1Gb. So 294Mb is ~0.294Gb.
>
>Eugene

Too bad the English didn't adopt the metric system.... now us Americans are
stuck with the horrible thing too!!

James



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