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Subject: Re: offline opening book learning

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 09:08:11 06/23/99

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On June 23, 1999 at 11:54:22, Jay Scott wrote:

>
>On June 22, 1999 at 14:32:26, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On June 22, 1999 at 13:17:35, Jay Scott wrote:
>>>You're suggesting the obvious algorithm, almost exactly what I suggested
>>>some months ago.
>>
>>It predates "some months ago" by a long time.  I am sure people thought of it at
>>least 10 years ago.
>
>I mean, almost exactly what I suggested to Dann Corbit the last time he
>mentioned his unusual updating algorithm. Like I said, it's obvious.
>So I'm puzzled that chess programs don't implement it!

Ah, now I see what you're getting at.  I think Bookup used to use the same
"naive" iteration algorithm before Mike implemented the tree-based one that you
(and I) are suggesting.

Dann: don't iterate!  It takes _way_ longer to work, trust me. :)  Find the
algorithmic complexity bounds if you don't believe me... iteration is far worse.

>>Overspecified, but it will work fine.
>
>Yes, overspecified. The details may be completely different.
>
>>>A more intensive novelty-search would find all moves within, say,
>>>half a pawn of the best move. Just use the "Next Best" feature until
>>>you've got 'em all. For the Kasparov effect, repeat the novelty search
>>>on the novelties until you have a whole subtree of analysis ready for
>>>your next opponent. The new scores float up the tree and may change
>>>the best move at the original node--the ideal is to discover that the
>>>novelty that seemed at first to be second-best is actually quite strong.
>>
>>Even the second-best ones are fine.  As a rule, you only get one game with them
>>before they're not novelties anymore.  As long as it gives the opponent
>>something to think about and a chance to go wrong, you're ahead.
>
>In human chess, when a hot novelty comes up at the top level there's a race
>to analyze it, to be the first to refute it or to find an improvement.
>Kasparov, and before him Fischer, showed that deep home analysis can be
>devastating. Computers can run this race too--but so far they don't.

Hmm.  I am thinking that in certain cases, it may be tough to decide where book
preparation ends and book cooking begins, though.  I know the focus is to find
objectively strong moves, and you were looking at off-line analysis, but if you
are autoplaying computer opponents... :/

>Seeing opening book errors in the recent WCCC, some people are suggesting
>that computer books should be shallower, because the programs can find
>stronger moves on their own. But home analysis, when it's possible, is
>better than spending time to find the moves over the board. So I
>think offline book learning is an idea whose time is ripe.
>
>Chess programmers, go for it!
>
>  Jay

Dave



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