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Subject: Re: Game 2: Uscf 2265 Master Vs Hiarcs6 ! Master wins in 19 moves!!???

Author: Terry Ripple

Date: 15:13:32 06/26/99

Go up one level in this thread


On June 26, 1999 at 07:28:23, Phil Dixon wrote:

>On June 26, 1999 at 02:10:29, Dave Dory wrote:
>
>>It's VERY ENLIGHTENING to watch a Master or GM who is familiar with playing
>>against computers, just take out the hinge pins from those tiny little silicon
>>gates!
>>
>>As Dr. Hyatt amongst others have noted, most computer chess players really ARE
>>not up to the standards of the human GM's. Even Deep Blue, who had ZERO
>>published games for G.K. to study over, was really quite fortunate to win their
>>abbreviated "match". Props to D.B., and it is (was?) a truly extraordinary piece
>>of hardware and software, but I think everyone also knows it was a lucky little
>>chap, also.
>>
>>The reason you don't see positional sacs in computer vs. computer games is
>>simply because programmers who have tried to introduce this knowledge into their
>>program have found, rather dreadfully, that the program will now sacrifice it's
>>material quite readily, until it has no hope of winning!!
>>
>>The horizon effect has been pushed back, by both hardware and software advances,
>>but it has not been pushed beyond the horizon of a really good chess player -
>>one who's familiar with the program, and has done his/her homework.
>>
>>Efforts to SOMEHOW increase the knowledge of the program, apart from the info in
>>the game tree or end game data bases are (IMO) very challenging. We shouldn't be
>>surprised since we still have to TELL the program how to win many end games,
>>move by move!
>>
>>[ My P.O.V ]
>>
>>What I would love to see is an emphasis on programs that use NO opening book,
>>and NO end game data. NOW we can play the program, and see what the program
>>really knows, NOT HOW SMART THE OPENING AND/OR END GAME DATA BASES ARE!!
>>
>>If the program can't play a good opening, on it's own, it should be made to do
>>so. If the program can't play an ending correctly, it should NOT BE ABLE TO JUST
>>LOOK UP PROPER PLAY MOVES IN A MAMMOTH DATA FILE. It should be programmed to
>>solve endings, on it's own, over the board.
>>
>>** NOT JUST LOOK IT UP!! **
>>
>>I know from experience, that most computer chess enthusiasts don't agree, but it
>
>I know from experience that it can be a daunting task to play against the
>program with its' huge, carefully constructed opening book.  I never will be
>able to compete on an equal basis with that kind of database.  For "rated"
>games, I think the program has an unfair advantage.
>
>>strikes me as CLEARLY unsportsmanlike to allow the human no books or printed
>>data (let alone a computer) of any kind, while at the same time, allowing the
>>computer to possibly dig out a great move from some internet resource halfway
>>around the world, or look through millions of move sequences laid out on it's
>>own hard disk.
>>
>>[ Just my P.O.V ]
>>( program reports soap box safely stored away for later use! ;-) )
>>
>>
>>Dave
-------
What do you mean? Grandmasters know memorized lines of hundreds of openings!
They dont go into a tournament not knowing anything about the opening, so it
would be also unfair to make a computer play with out its opening book.
------
Terry



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