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Subject: Re: Question: Re: HiarcsMark

Author: Melvin S. Schwartz

Date: 06:52:12 06/28/99

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On June 28, 1999 at 02:57:05, Terry Ripple wrote:

>On June 27, 1999 at 22:35:50, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>
>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:49:14, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:26:29, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 15:33:48, Terry Ripple wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 14:00:33, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does anyone have factual information regarding the reason for both the short and
>>>>>>long test?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Question #2: How does these tests relate to the playing of a game at 40/2?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Question #3: How many of these tests, either short or long are we supposed to
>>>>>>run?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Question #4: On what criteria do you base your answers to the above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, I ran a short test with 32 megs for hash tables and the score was 133
>>>>>>HiarcsMark 39kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs, the score was 131
>>>>>>HiarcsMark 39 kN/S.
>>>>>>At 145 megs the score was lower in kN/S and HiarcsMark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When I ran the long test with 32 megs of HT, the score was 280 HiarcsMark with
>>>>>>35 kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs for HT, the score was still 280
>>>>>>HiarcsMark but 34kN/S. Please keep in mind that I only ran one test for each
>>>>>>set-up. Now, there is absolutely nothing in regards to how these tests relate to
>>>>>>actual play or how many tests should be run - with Fritz 5.32 I believe it's all
>>>>>>automatic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>Mel, Presdent of the Hiarcs Confusion Club. New menbers are welcome. There is no
>>>>>>annual membership fee. The only requirement is to own Hiarcs 7.32 and the rest
>>>>>>should come naturally.
>>>>>--------
>>>>>Hi Mel,
>>>>>  Did you know that the time control is in direct relation with how many MB of
>>>>>Hash Size you use and the speed of your computer is in direct relation with how
>>>>>high the KN/S will be! Whats your CPU Speed and total RAM?
>>>>>  My CPU Speed is a AMD K6-2, 266mhz MMX with 64RAM: My average HI-Mark is 93,
>>>>>and i get a 26 KN/S when following the Optimum Hash Size in Configurations.
>>>>>For instance, info recommends for Game/60min.= 24MB Hash Size but i get a bit
>>>>>better HI-Mark using 18.432MB which gives me a 93 Hi-Mark and 26 KN/S.
>>>>>At 30min. it recommends Optimum of 12MB and i use 12.288MB which gives me a -
>>>>>94 Hi-Mark with 26 KN/S.
>>>>>  Now the Confusion Starts: I discovered that if i ignor all the Recommendations
>>>>>and set the Hash Size for Only 1 or 2 MB for any Time Control- Setting, i will
>>>>>get a Wopping Hi-Mark of 193 and 27 KN/S.
>>>>>  I got a recommendation to use this Formula: 2 x KN/S x Average Sec.per Move:
>>>>>Lets say a time of 40/2hour.= 180 seconds per move in the above formula so here
>>>>>we go: 2 x 26 x 180 = 9360 KB = 9.360 MB of Hash Size! I know it seems low but
>>>>>don`t forget that Fritz fills up the Hash Table 10 times Faster than Hiarcs does
>>>>>and that Optimum Hash recommendation in the Configuration settings was for meant
>>>>>for Fritz!! I didn`t mean to cofuse you even more but after all, thats why we
>>>>>joined the Confusion Club of Hiarcs!!!!! Ha Ha!!
>>>>
>>>>Hello Terry,
>>>>
>>>>You can consider yourself an honary member of the Club. Thanks for adding more
>>>>confusion and causing me to take two aspirin. Now, you didn't really address the
>>>>questions as to how many of these tests we are supposed to run,
>>>
>>>I would run it 1 time and then never run it again...unless for some reason you
>>>think your computer is running slow for some reason, the hiarcsmark makes an ok
>>>check for this.
>>>
>>>
>>> and what is the
>>>>purpose for having a short and long test?
>>>
>>>Just to check the system speed at a short and long time period. With Hiarcs I
>>>would only use the long test.
>>>
>>> Remember, I'm a Vitamin expert, not a
>>>>computer whiz.
>>>>
>>>>So the formula in System Configuration is wrong? Hmmm? Maybe that's why
>>>>ChessBase doesn't answer my question about that; however, Gambit-Soft support
>>>>said it was correct! Anyway, how could Hiarcs only need such a small amount of
>>>>megs even though it's different than Fritz? Are you saying that with more megs
>>>>for HT it will perform worse???
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't worry about hash size with Hiarcs 7. You gain nothing by using more then
>>>64mb, but it does not hurt you either. I see nothing that shows using 64mb hurts
>>>you at fast time controls. I would just pick a setting you like in your own mind
>>>and keep it there.
>>>
>>Hello Mark,
>>
>>I thank you for making life a little easier for me. You have put my mind at
>>ease. I will now ask you instead of ConfusionBase, err, I mean ChessBase. Now,
>>Mark, I have two more questions for you:
>>
>>1. Would I be correct in assuming that the HiarcsMark is more important than
>>kN/S? In other words, are we really after a higher HiarcsMark as opposed to a
>>higher kN/S score?
>>
>>2. Here is a game where in the opening Hiarcs played a move that the info screen
>>highlighted in red as "no":
>>
>>1.e4...c5  2.Nf3...e6  3.d4...cxd4  4.Nxd4...Nf6  5.Nc3...Nc6  6.Nxc6...bxc6
>>7.e5...Nd5  8.Ne4...f5  9.Nd6+ and here Hiarcs played Bxd6 when the info window
>>displayed Bxd6 no with the no highlghted in red and was the only move listed.
>>How do you explain Hiarcs making a move that is displayed as not to do? Please
>>try it on your Hiarcs and let me know what happens.
>>
>>Mel
>>>
>>>If you want to get a clearer understanding how hash effects hiarcs 7.32 speed,
>>>just runs set of problems with hiarcs 7.32 and see how it performs with
>>>different hash sizes.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think all the CM6000K guys must be having a good laugh about all this - maybe
>>>>I should get CM6000K. This whole situation with Hiarcs is in my opinion -
>>>>ABSURD. The wrong manual, wrong hash table info, no explanation about
>>>>HiarcsMark, tablebase confusion - I consider it fortunate we were able to run
>>>>the program at all. ChessBase deserves a lot of credit for being unresponsive
>>>>and totally without regard for the consumer. Either they don't answer, or they
>>>>can't answer. Even Mark Uniacke never responded to my query about hash tables.
>>>>Well, at this point, I don't know if what you say above about "your" formula for
>>>>HT is true. I would like to hear from Mark Uniacke here and get the truth. Also,
>>>>I am still interested in what the reason is for the short and long tests? And
>>>>how many tests are we supposed to run? Furthermore, is it fact that a higher
>>>>HiarcsMark with a lower kN/S is better than a lower HiarcsMark with a higher
>>>>kN/S?
>>>>
>>>>For your information: I have an AMD K6 400MHz processor with 192 MB of RAM and
>>>>10.0 GB on the hard drive.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Mel>
>>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>>Terry
>------------------
>Hi Mel,
>  If you want to get the highest H-Mark, then set your Hash size for only 1MB
>and you will see the Highest Score ever!! Thats why you got to take this Hi-
>Mark Test with a grain of salt!! I tried this on all time controls and it makes
>no difference!!! The formula i gave you makes a hell of a lot more sense!!
>All i can say from here is "Your Now On Your Own", Good Luck!!!!

Hello Terry,

I guess your leaving the Club. :-) Sooo, the HiarcsMark is meaningless you
say...hmmm. Well, that means ChessBase not only put out a product with the wrong
manual, but they even put in a test which means nothing and only causes more
confusion. Maybe they should change their name to ConfusionBase,

Regards,
Mel
>
>Best Regards,
>Terry



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