Author: Melvin S. Schwartz
Date: 06:52:12 06/28/99
Go up one level in this thread
On June 28, 1999 at 02:57:05, Terry Ripple wrote: >On June 27, 1999 at 22:35:50, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: > >> >>On June 27, 1999 at 17:49:14, Mark Young wrote: >> >>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:26:29, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>On June 27, 1999 at 15:33:48, Terry Ripple wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 14:00:33, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Does anyone have factual information regarding the reason for both the short and >>>>>>long test? >>>>>> >>>>>>Question #2: How does these tests relate to the playing of a game at 40/2? >>>>>> >>>>>>Question #3: How many of these tests, either short or long are we supposed to >>>>>>run? >>>>>> >>>>>>Question #4: On what criteria do you base your answers to the above? >>>>>> >>>>>>Now, I ran a short test with 32 megs for hash tables and the score was 133 >>>>>>HiarcsMark 39kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs, the score was 131 >>>>>>HiarcsMark 39 kN/S. >>>>>>At 145 megs the score was lower in kN/S and HiarcsMark. >>>>>> >>>>>>When I ran the long test with 32 megs of HT, the score was 280 HiarcsMark with >>>>>>35 kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs for HT, the score was still 280 >>>>>>HiarcsMark but 34kN/S. Please keep in mind that I only ran one test for each >>>>>>set-up. Now, there is absolutely nothing in regards to how these tests relate to >>>>>>actual play or how many tests should be run - with Fritz 5.32 I believe it's all >>>>>>automatic. >>>>>> >>>>>>I thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>Mel, Presdent of the Hiarcs Confusion Club. New menbers are welcome. There is no >>>>>>annual membership fee. The only requirement is to own Hiarcs 7.32 and the rest >>>>>>should come naturally. >>>>>-------- >>>>>Hi Mel, >>>>> Did you know that the time control is in direct relation with how many MB of >>>>>Hash Size you use and the speed of your computer is in direct relation with how >>>>>high the KN/S will be! Whats your CPU Speed and total RAM? >>>>> My CPU Speed is a AMD K6-2, 266mhz MMX with 64RAM: My average HI-Mark is 93, >>>>>and i get a 26 KN/S when following the Optimum Hash Size in Configurations. >>>>>For instance, info recommends for Game/60min.= 24MB Hash Size but i get a bit >>>>>better HI-Mark using 18.432MB which gives me a 93 Hi-Mark and 26 KN/S. >>>>>At 30min. it recommends Optimum of 12MB and i use 12.288MB which gives me a - >>>>>94 Hi-Mark with 26 KN/S. >>>>> Now the Confusion Starts: I discovered that if i ignor all the Recommendations >>>>>and set the Hash Size for Only 1 or 2 MB for any Time Control- Setting, i will >>>>>get a Wopping Hi-Mark of 193 and 27 KN/S. >>>>> I got a recommendation to use this Formula: 2 x KN/S x Average Sec.per Move: >>>>>Lets say a time of 40/2hour.= 180 seconds per move in the above formula so here >>>>>we go: 2 x 26 x 180 = 9360 KB = 9.360 MB of Hash Size! I know it seems low but >>>>>don`t forget that Fritz fills up the Hash Table 10 times Faster than Hiarcs does >>>>>and that Optimum Hash recommendation in the Configuration settings was for meant >>>>>for Fritz!! I didn`t mean to cofuse you even more but after all, thats why we >>>>>joined the Confusion Club of Hiarcs!!!!! Ha Ha!! >>>> >>>>Hello Terry, >>>> >>>>You can consider yourself an honary member of the Club. Thanks for adding more >>>>confusion and causing me to take two aspirin. Now, you didn't really address the >>>>questions as to how many of these tests we are supposed to run, >>> >>>I would run it 1 time and then never run it again...unless for some reason you >>>think your computer is running slow for some reason, the hiarcsmark makes an ok >>>check for this. >>> >>> >>> and what is the >>>>purpose for having a short and long test? >>> >>>Just to check the system speed at a short and long time period. With Hiarcs I >>>would only use the long test. >>> >>> Remember, I'm a Vitamin expert, not a >>>>computer whiz. >>>> >>>>So the formula in System Configuration is wrong? Hmmm? Maybe that's why >>>>ChessBase doesn't answer my question about that; however, Gambit-Soft support >>>>said it was correct! Anyway, how could Hiarcs only need such a small amount of >>>>megs even though it's different than Fritz? Are you saying that with more megs >>>>for HT it will perform worse??? >>> >>> >>>Don't worry about hash size with Hiarcs 7. You gain nothing by using more then >>>64mb, but it does not hurt you either. I see nothing that shows using 64mb hurts >>>you at fast time controls. I would just pick a setting you like in your own mind >>>and keep it there. >>> >>Hello Mark, >> >>I thank you for making life a little easier for me. You have put my mind at >>ease. I will now ask you instead of ConfusionBase, err, I mean ChessBase. Now, >>Mark, I have two more questions for you: >> >>1. Would I be correct in assuming that the HiarcsMark is more important than >>kN/S? In other words, are we really after a higher HiarcsMark as opposed to a >>higher kN/S score? >> >>2. Here is a game where in the opening Hiarcs played a move that the info screen >>highlighted in red as "no": >> >>1.e4...c5 2.Nf3...e6 3.d4...cxd4 4.Nxd4...Nf6 5.Nc3...Nc6 6.Nxc6...bxc6 >>7.e5...Nd5 8.Ne4...f5 9.Nd6+ and here Hiarcs played Bxd6 when the info window >>displayed Bxd6 no with the no highlghted in red and was the only move listed. >>How do you explain Hiarcs making a move that is displayed as not to do? Please >>try it on your Hiarcs and let me know what happens. >> >>Mel >>> >>>If you want to get a clearer understanding how hash effects hiarcs 7.32 speed, >>>just runs set of problems with hiarcs 7.32 and see how it performs with >>>different hash sizes. >>> >>>> >>>>I think all the CM6000K guys must be having a good laugh about all this - maybe >>>>I should get CM6000K. This whole situation with Hiarcs is in my opinion - >>>>ABSURD. The wrong manual, wrong hash table info, no explanation about >>>>HiarcsMark, tablebase confusion - I consider it fortunate we were able to run >>>>the program at all. ChessBase deserves a lot of credit for being unresponsive >>>>and totally without regard for the consumer. Either they don't answer, or they >>>>can't answer. Even Mark Uniacke never responded to my query about hash tables. >>>>Well, at this point, I don't know if what you say above about "your" formula for >>>>HT is true. I would like to hear from Mark Uniacke here and get the truth. Also, >>>>I am still interested in what the reason is for the short and long tests? And >>>>how many tests are we supposed to run? Furthermore, is it fact that a higher >>>>HiarcsMark with a lower kN/S is better than a lower HiarcsMark with a higher >>>>kN/S? >>>> >>>>For your information: I have an AMD K6 400MHz processor with 192 MB of RAM and >>>>10.0 GB on the hard drive. >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Mel> >>>>>Best Regards, >>>>>Terry >------------------ >Hi Mel, > If you want to get the highest H-Mark, then set your Hash size for only 1MB >and you will see the Highest Score ever!! Thats why you got to take this Hi- >Mark Test with a grain of salt!! I tried this on all time controls and it makes >no difference!!! The formula i gave you makes a hell of a lot more sense!! >All i can say from here is "Your Now On Your Own", Good Luck!!!! Hello Terry, I guess your leaving the Club. :-) Sooo, the HiarcsMark is meaningless you say...hmmm. Well, that means ChessBase not only put out a product with the wrong manual, but they even put in a test which means nothing and only causes more confusion. Maybe they should change their name to ConfusionBase, Regards, Mel > >Best Regards, >Terry
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