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Subject: Re: Which Program Would do the Best on ICC?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:12:42 06/28/99

Go up one level in this thread


On June 28, 1999 at 20:11:15, Mark Young wrote:

>On June 28, 1999 at 16:38:15, James T. Walker wrote:
>
>>On June 28, 1999 at 11:00:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On June 28, 1999 at 09:57:20, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On June 28, 1999 at 01:27:53, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 16:43:59, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 15:49:53, odell hall wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I am thinking about setting up a computer account on ICC? Does anyone know
>>>>>>>Which Program would  do the best? If the choice was between Genius 5 , hiarcs6,
>>>>>>>Mchess 8 or Genius 3? I have heard that Genius 5 is the Best a blitz chess
>>>>>>>(game/15) is this still true. What program would tear the crafty clone Data to
>>>>>>>shreds!!  (incredibly strong data is!) Or should I just go out and purchase
>>>>>>>Chessmaster 6000 to do the Job?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The best results I have had is with Hiarcs 7.01. I have not had a chance to play
>>>>>>7.32 online because of the testing I am running now. I most likely will only
>>>>>>test Hiarcs 7.32 against humans online, after testing Hiarcs 7.01 online against
>>>>>>other computers its left a bad taste in my mouth. I try to test against the best
>>>>>>programs online and play a set amount of games, but with Hiarcs 7 this became
>>>>>>almost impossible because of the high winning percentage Hiarcs 7 was
>>>>>>generating. The automatic programs would no play me, or change the time formula
>>>>>>to only play 0 inc games in the middle of my testing, and some of the other
>>>>>>manuale computer operators were no better. Rating protection in online play is
>>>>>>only getting worse, and thats to bad because it was a nice tool to use in the
>>>>>>evaluation of chess programs.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not understand it.
>>>>>I think that programmers should prefer to play against strong opponents because
>>>>>they can learn from the games that they lose to improve their programs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>He is not talking about programmers.
>>>>
>>>>bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>Bruce, myself, Stanback, Ban, plus the usual cast of the "under 2600 club" here
>>>play on ICC and do just what you suggest.  But we are a tiny bit of the total
>>>number of computers playing there.  There are dozens of Fritz, Hiarcs, shredder,
>>>and so forth (not to mention crafty, comet, tcb, etc) that are run by _others_.
>>>And _they_ are not working on improving their programs.  Many work only to
>>>improve their 'rating' which is a point I don't understand.
>>
>>He may be talking about programmers.  If the shoe fits, wear it.  Programmers
>>are not immune from the action he is talking about.  There seems to be a rating
>>point contest on ICC and programmers seem to be caught up in this action too.
>>It seems like programmers can't separate their egos from their programs either.
>>There are many childish "games" being played on ICC with computer accounts.  I
>>run a computer account on ICC as a hobby.  I enjoy watching the different
>>programs play each other.  It is a long time hobby of mine that goes back to my
>>first two chess computers (Chess Challenger 10 vs Sargon 2.5).  I can play Fritz
>>vs Crafty at home but I don't have a "Quad Xeon" so I don't get the same quality
>>of play I would get if I get a chance to play Fritz/Hiarcs vs Crafty. So I enjoy
>>the games on the Internet.  And If I get a chance to watch a GM / IM play
>>Fritz/Hiarcs it's a real treat for me!  That's what I get out of running a
>>computer account.  And Bob, I got to tell you, your words ring a little hollow
>>on this point.  I'm still on the Crafty "Noplay" list and my only "Crime" is
>>that I played 5 games vs Crafty.  This after I explained, that there was nothing
>>in your notes about this and it was just a misunderstanding.  Is this your way
>>of protecting your rating points?
>>I, like the above poster, was under the impression that programmers would like
>>to test their programs against top level competition to look for flaws.  I would
>>think you would learn more from one loss vs Fritz than winning 16 of 17 vs a FM.
>> I thought it would be better if the progams were actually playing chess rather
>>than just sitting idle waiting for a GM / IM to come along.  Apparently I was
>>wrong.
>>Jim Walker
>
>To be fair, it must stated that Bruce and Bob in the past have gone out of their
>way to allow me to test the commercail programs against their programs. Bruce
>has a open policy when playing his computer, no limit on games, a fair inc level
>for me to use etc., and if you beat it he wants you to play more. Bruce was
>totally cool about people playing his program.
>
>But the number of computer players, programmers or not that don't protect their
>rating is getting to small, and you have to look to hard to find enough sample
>size to make testing meaningful.


I should add that I have played _many_ long matches vs computers.  All I ask
is to be contacted first.  I have set it up so Vincent could play 24 hours non-
stop testing for Paderborn.  "hossa" can play as well, as I have my interface
set to not +noplay them after 4 games.  All it takes is an 'ask'...  and the
stipulation that no GM players have set up to play me a bunch of games in
advance, which happens from time to time..



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