Author: Terry Ripple
Date: 01:39:19 06/29/99
Go up one level in this thread
On June 28, 1999 at 09:52:12, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: > >On June 28, 1999 at 02:57:05, Terry Ripple wrote: > >>On June 27, 1999 at 22:35:50, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >> >>> >>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:49:14, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:26:29, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 15:33:48, Terry Ripple wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 14:00:33, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Does anyone have factual information regarding the reason for both the short and >>>>>>>long test? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Question #2: How does these tests relate to the playing of a game at 40/2? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Question #3: How many of these tests, either short or long are we supposed to >>>>>>>run? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Question #4: On what criteria do you base your answers to the above? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Now, I ran a short test with 32 megs for hash tables and the score was 133 >>>>>>>HiarcsMark 39kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs, the score was 131 >>>>>>>HiarcsMark 39 kN/S. >>>>>>>At 145 megs the score was lower in kN/S and HiarcsMark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>When I ran the long test with 32 megs of HT, the score was 280 HiarcsMark with >>>>>>>35 kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs for HT, the score was still 280 >>>>>>>HiarcsMark but 34kN/S. Please keep in mind that I only ran one test for each >>>>>>>set-up. Now, there is absolutely nothing in regards to how these tests relate to >>>>>>>actual play or how many tests should be run - with Fritz 5.32 I believe it's all >>>>>>>automatic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>>Mel, Presdent of the Hiarcs Confusion Club. New menbers are welcome. There is no >>>>>>>annual membership fee. The only requirement is to own Hiarcs 7.32 and the rest >>>>>>>should come naturally. >>>>>>-------- >>>>>>Hi Mel, >>>>>> Did you know that the time control is in direct relation with how many MB of >>>>>>Hash Size you use and the speed of your computer is in direct relation with how >>>>>>high the KN/S will be! Whats your CPU Speed and total RAM? >>>>>> My CPU Speed is a AMD K6-2, 266mhz MMX with 64RAM: My average HI-Mark is 93, >>>>>>and i get a 26 KN/S when following the Optimum Hash Size in Configurations. >>>>>>For instance, info recommends for Game/60min.= 24MB Hash Size but i get a bit >>>>>>better HI-Mark using 18.432MB which gives me a 93 Hi-Mark and 26 KN/S. >>>>>>At 30min. it recommends Optimum of 12MB and i use 12.288MB which gives me a - >>>>>>94 Hi-Mark with 26 KN/S. >>>>>> Now the Confusion Starts: I discovered that if i ignor all the Recommendations >>>>>>and set the Hash Size for Only 1 or 2 MB for any Time Control- Setting, i will >>>>>>get a Wopping Hi-Mark of 193 and 27 KN/S. >>>>>> I got a recommendation to use this Formula: 2 x KN/S x Average Sec.per Move: >>>>>>Lets say a time of 40/2hour.= 180 seconds per move in the above formula so here >>>>>>we go: 2 x 26 x 180 = 9360 KB = 9.360 MB of Hash Size! I know it seems low but >>>>>>don`t forget that Fritz fills up the Hash Table 10 times Faster than Hiarcs does >>>>>>and that Optimum Hash recommendation in the Configuration settings was for meant >>>>>>for Fritz!! I didn`t mean to cofuse you even more but after all, thats why we >>>>>>joined the Confusion Club of Hiarcs!!!!! Ha Ha!! >>>>> >>>>>Hello Terry, >>>>> >>>>>You can consider yourself an honary member of the Club. Thanks for adding more >>>>>confusion and causing me to take two aspirin. Now, you didn't really address the >>>>>questions as to how many of these tests we are supposed to run, >>>> >>>>I would run it 1 time and then never run it again...unless for some reason you >>>>think your computer is running slow for some reason, the hiarcsmark makes an ok >>>>check for this. >>>> >>>> >>>> and what is the >>>>>purpose for having a short and long test? >>>> >>>>Just to check the system speed at a short and long time period. With Hiarcs I >>>>would only use the long test. >>>> >>>> Remember, I'm a Vitamin expert, not a >>>>>computer whiz. >>>>> >>>>>So the formula in System Configuration is wrong? Hmmm? Maybe that's why >>>>>ChessBase doesn't answer my question about that; however, Gambit-Soft support >>>>>said it was correct! Anyway, how could Hiarcs only need such a small amount of >>>>>megs even though it's different than Fritz? Are you saying that with more megs >>>>>for HT it will perform worse??? >>>> >>>> >>>>Don't worry about hash size with Hiarcs 7. You gain nothing by using more then >>>>64mb, but it does not hurt you either. I see nothing that shows using 64mb hurts >>>>you at fast time controls. I would just pick a setting you like in your own mind >>>>and keep it there. >>>> >>>Hello Mark, >>> >>>I thank you for making life a little easier for me. You have put my mind at >>>ease. I will now ask you instead of ConfusionBase, err, I mean ChessBase. Now, >>>Mark, I have two more questions for you: >>> >>>1. Would I be correct in assuming that the HiarcsMark is more important than >>>kN/S? In other words, are we really after a higher HiarcsMark as opposed to a >>>higher kN/S score? >>> >>>2. Here is a game where in the opening Hiarcs played a move that the info screen >>>highlighted in red as "no": >>> >>>1.e4...c5 2.Nf3...e6 3.d4...cxd4 4.Nxd4...Nf6 5.Nc3...Nc6 6.Nxc6...bxc6 >>>7.e5...Nd5 8.Ne4...f5 9.Nd6+ and here Hiarcs played Bxd6 when the info window >>>displayed Bxd6 no with the no highlghted in red and was the only move listed. >>>How do you explain Hiarcs making a move that is displayed as not to do? Please >>>try it on your Hiarcs and let me know what happens. >>> >>>Mel >>>> >>>>If you want to get a clearer understanding how hash effects hiarcs 7.32 speed, >>>>just runs set of problems with hiarcs 7.32 and see how it performs with >>>>different hash sizes. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>I think all the CM6000K guys must be having a good laugh about all this - maybe >>>>>I should get CM6000K. This whole situation with Hiarcs is in my opinion - >>>>>ABSURD. The wrong manual, wrong hash table info, no explanation about >>>>>HiarcsMark, tablebase confusion - I consider it fortunate we were able to run >>>>>the program at all. ChessBase deserves a lot of credit for being unresponsive >>>>>and totally without regard for the consumer. Either they don't answer, or they >>>>>can't answer. Even Mark Uniacke never responded to my query about hash tables. >>>>>Well, at this point, I don't know if what you say above about "your" formula for >>>>>HT is true. I would like to hear from Mark Uniacke here and get the truth. Also, >>>>>I am still interested in what the reason is for the short and long tests? And >>>>>how many tests are we supposed to run? Furthermore, is it fact that a higher >>>>>HiarcsMark with a lower kN/S is better than a lower HiarcsMark with a higher >>>>>kN/S? >>>>> >>>>>For your information: I have an AMD K6 400MHz processor with 192 MB of RAM and >>>>>10.0 GB on the hard drive. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Mel> >>>>>>Best Regards, >>>>>>Terry >>------------------ >>Hi Mel, >> If you want to get the highest H-Mark, then set your Hash size for only 1MB >>and you will see the Highest Score ever!! Thats why you got to take this Hi- >>Mark Test with a grain of salt!! I tried this on all time controls and it makes >>no difference!!! The formula i gave you makes a hell of a lot more sense!! >>All i can say from here is "Your Now On Your Own", Good Luck!!!! > >Hello Terry, > >I guess your leaving the Club. :-) Sooo, the HiarcsMark is meaningless you >say...hmmm. Well, that means ChessBase not only put out a product with the wrong >manual, but they even put in a test which means nothing and only causes more >confusion. Maybe they should change their name to ConfusionBase, > >Regards, >Mel -------------- Hi Mel, I`am not leaving the club as yet! I was trying to get more opinions about this topic and was sort of fishing around to see if someone could shoot this formula apart but so far so good!! I`am doing some different experiments and hope to reinforce this formula. The answer to your question is the Short Test i was talking about! ------ Best regards, Terry >> >>Best Regards, >>Terry
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.