Author: Melvin S. Schwartz
Date: 17:01:17 06/30/99
Go up one level in this thread
On June 29, 1999 at 04:39:19, Terry Ripple wrote: >On June 28, 1999 at 09:52:12, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: > >> >>On June 28, 1999 at 02:57:05, Terry Ripple wrote: >> >>>On June 27, 1999 at 22:35:50, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:49:14, Mark Young wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 17:26:29, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 15:33:48, Terry Ripple wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 27, 1999 at 14:00:33, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Does anyone have factual information regarding the reason for both the short and >>>>>>>>long test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Question #2: How does these tests relate to the playing of a game at 40/2? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Question #3: How many of these tests, either short or long are we supposed to >>>>>>>>run? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Question #4: On what criteria do you base your answers to the above? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Now, I ran a short test with 32 megs for hash tables and the score was 133 >>>>>>>>HiarcsMark 39kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs, the score was 131 >>>>>>>>HiarcsMark 39 kN/S. >>>>>>>>At 145 megs the score was lower in kN/S and HiarcsMark. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>When I ran the long test with 32 megs of HT, the score was 280 HiarcsMark with >>>>>>>>35 kN/S. When I ran the same test with 64 megs for HT, the score was still 280 >>>>>>>>HiarcsMark but 34kN/S. Please keep in mind that I only ran one test for each >>>>>>>>set-up. Now, there is absolutely nothing in regards to how these tests relate to >>>>>>>>actual play or how many tests should be run - with Fritz 5.32 I believe it's all >>>>>>>>automatic. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>>>Mel, Presdent of the Hiarcs Confusion Club. New menbers are welcome. There is no >>>>>>>>annual membership fee. The only requirement is to own Hiarcs 7.32 and the rest >>>>>>>>should come naturally. >>>>>>>-------- >>>>>>>Hi Mel, >>>>>>> Did you know that the time control is in direct relation with how many MB of >>>>>>>Hash Size you use and the speed of your computer is in direct relation with how >>>>>>>high the KN/S will be! Whats your CPU Speed and total RAM? >>>>>>> My CPU Speed is a AMD K6-2, 266mhz MMX with 64RAM: My average HI-Mark is 93, >>>>>>>and i get a 26 KN/S when following the Optimum Hash Size in Configurations. >>>>>>>For instance, info recommends for Game/60min.= 24MB Hash Size but i get a bit >>>>>>>better HI-Mark using 18.432MB which gives me a 93 Hi-Mark and 26 KN/S. >>>>>>>At 30min. it recommends Optimum of 12MB and i use 12.288MB which gives me a - >>>>>>>94 Hi-Mark with 26 KN/S. >>>>>>> Now the Confusion Starts: I discovered that if i ignor all the Recommendations >>>>>>>and set the Hash Size for Only 1 or 2 MB for any Time Control- Setting, i will >>>>>>>get a Wopping Hi-Mark of 193 and 27 KN/S. >>>>>>> I got a recommendation to use this Formula: 2 x KN/S x Average Sec.per Move: >>>>>>>Lets say a time of 40/2hour.= 180 seconds per move in the above formula so here >>>>>>>we go: 2 x 26 x 180 = 9360 KB = 9.360 MB of Hash Size! I know it seems low but >>>>>>>don`t forget that Fritz fills up the Hash Table 10 times Faster than Hiarcs does >>>>>>>and that Optimum Hash recommendation in the Configuration settings was for meant >>>>>>>for Fritz!! I didn`t mean to cofuse you even more but after all, thats why we >>>>>>>joined the Confusion Club of Hiarcs!!!!! Ha Ha!! >>>>>> >>>>>>Hello Terry, >>>>>> >>>>>>You can consider yourself an honary member of the Club. Thanks for adding more >>>>>>confusion and causing me to take two aspirin. Now, you didn't really address the >>>>>>questions as to how many of these tests we are supposed to run, >>>>> >>>>>I would run it 1 time and then never run it again...unless for some reason you >>>>>think your computer is running slow for some reason, the hiarcsmark makes an ok >>>>>check for this. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and what is the >>>>>>purpose for having a short and long test? >>>>> >>>>>Just to check the system speed at a short and long time period. With Hiarcs I >>>>>would only use the long test. >>>>> >>>>> Remember, I'm a Vitamin expert, not a >>>>>>computer whiz. >>>>>> >>>>>>So the formula in System Configuration is wrong? Hmmm? Maybe that's why >>>>>>ChessBase doesn't answer my question about that; however, Gambit-Soft support >>>>>>said it was correct! Anyway, how could Hiarcs only need such a small amount of >>>>>>megs even though it's different than Fritz? Are you saying that with more megs >>>>>>for HT it will perform worse??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Don't worry about hash size with Hiarcs 7. You gain nothing by using more then >>>>>64mb, but it does not hurt you either. I see nothing that shows using 64mb hurts >>>>>you at fast time controls. I would just pick a setting you like in your own mind >>>>>and keep it there. >>>>> >>>>Hello Mark, >>>> >>>>I thank you for making life a little easier for me. You have put my mind at >>>>ease. I will now ask you instead of ConfusionBase, err, I mean ChessBase. Now, >>>>Mark, I have two more questions for you: >>>> >>>>1. Would I be correct in assuming that the HiarcsMark is more important than >>>>kN/S? In other words, are we really after a higher HiarcsMark as opposed to a >>>>higher kN/S score? >>>> >>>>2. Here is a game where in the opening Hiarcs played a move that the info screen >>>>highlighted in red as "no": >>>> >>>>1.e4...c5 2.Nf3...e6 3.d4...cxd4 4.Nxd4...Nf6 5.Nc3...Nc6 6.Nxc6...bxc6 >>>>7.e5...Nd5 8.Ne4...f5 9.Nd6+ and here Hiarcs played Bxd6 when the info window >>>>displayed Bxd6 no with the no highlghted in red and was the only move listed. >>>>How do you explain Hiarcs making a move that is displayed as not to do? Please >>>>try it on your Hiarcs and let me know what happens. >>>> >>>>Mel >>>>> >>>>>If you want to get a clearer understanding how hash effects hiarcs 7.32 speed, >>>>>just runs set of problems with hiarcs 7.32 and see how it performs with >>>>>different hash sizes. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I think all the CM6000K guys must be having a good laugh about all this - maybe >>>>>>I should get CM6000K. This whole situation with Hiarcs is in my opinion - >>>>>>ABSURD. The wrong manual, wrong hash table info, no explanation about >>>>>>HiarcsMark, tablebase confusion - I consider it fortunate we were able to run >>>>>>the program at all. ChessBase deserves a lot of credit for being unresponsive >>>>>>and totally without regard for the consumer. Either they don't answer, or they >>>>>>can't answer. Even Mark Uniacke never responded to my query about hash tables. >>>>>>Well, at this point, I don't know if what you say above about "your" formula for >>>>>>HT is true. I would like to hear from Mark Uniacke here and get the truth. Also, >>>>>>I am still interested in what the reason is for the short and long tests? And >>>>>>how many tests are we supposed to run? Furthermore, is it fact that a higher >>>>>>HiarcsMark with a lower kN/S is better than a lower HiarcsMark with a higher >>>>>>kN/S? >>>>>> >>>>>>For your information: I have an AMD K6 400MHz processor with 192 MB of RAM and >>>>>>10.0 GB on the hard drive. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>Mel> >>>>>>>Best Regards, >>>>>>>Terry >>>------------------ >>>Hi Mel, >>> If you want to get the highest H-Mark, then set your Hash size for only 1MB >>>and you will see the Highest Score ever!! Thats why you got to take this Hi- >>>Mark Test with a grain of salt!! I tried this on all time controls and it makes >>>no difference!!! The formula i gave you makes a hell of a lot more sense!! >>>All i can say from here is "Your Now On Your Own", Good Luck!!!! >> >>Hello Terry, >> >>I guess your leaving the Club. :-) Sooo, the HiarcsMark is meaningless you >>say...hmmm. Well, that means ChessBase not only put out a product with the wrong >>manual, but they even put in a test which means nothing and only causes more >>confusion. Maybe they should change their name to ConfusionBase, >> >>Regards, >>Mel >-------------- >Hi Mel, > I`am not leaving the club as yet! I was trying to get more opinions about this >topic and was sort of fishing around to see if someone could shoot this formula >apart but so far so good!! I`am doing some different experiments and hope to >reinforce this formula. > The answer to your question is the Short Test i was talking about! >------ >Best regards, >Terry > > >>> >>>Best Regards, >>>Terry Short, long, hash table confusion, no manual, opening book screwed-up - I think I'll just take out my stand alone Mephisto Atlanta. :-))) Best regards, What the heck is my name...I think I'll have to see a shrink real soon. And I wanted to play against chess software...I...I............Oh, have I a headache.
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