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Subject: Re: What are the results between top ICC programs?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:44:40 07/01/99

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On July 01, 1999 at 14:34:26, blass uri wrote:

>
>On July 01, 1999 at 14:25:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 01, 1999 at 12:18:30, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On July 01, 1999 at 11:55:46, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On July 01, 1999 at 10:41:28, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I am interested to know results between top ICC programs at standard time
>>>>>control(if possible 2 hours/40) from the last 2 monthes.
>>>>>
>>>>>I guess that the top ICC programs include Ferret,Shredder,Ban,Crafty.
>>>>>Is it possible to get the games between these programs in ICC?
>>>>>
>>>>>Which hardware do they use in ICC?
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>There is no such thing as 40 moves in 2 hours on ICC, and you will find very
>>>>very few games at time controls approximating that.
>>>>
>>>>bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>I assumed that there is because otherwise I do not understand what is the reason
>>>that Bob hyatt said that he is sure that there is at least one program that is
>>>better than shredder and that he assumed that shredder is a good program but not
>>>the best.
>>>
>>>We have no data to assume that shredder was lucky.
>>>
>>>It is also possible that shredder prepared better for the tournament time
>>>control games.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Quite simple...  I have watched shredder and Ferret play for many months.  They
>>are probably in the same ballpark quality-wise.  Except that Ferret is 3x faster
>>with the parallel search.  In a match, I'd personally pick ferret, and the
>>longer the match, the more I'd be willing to bet, because 3x speed advantage
>>is way-non-trivial...
>>
>>That was my point.  Not that Shredder is 'bad' at all.  Just that Ferret is just
>>as good on equal hardware (IMHO) and with 3x the hardware it is _very difficult_
>>to handle.
>
>I do not agree that you can know from watching program playing at fast time
>control what will happen at tournament time control.
>
>The only way to know is to play games at tournament time control.
>
>I read that the tester of shredder said about the results against commercial
>programs that longer time control help shredder.
>
>Uri
>
>Uri


Time doesn't matter _at all_ when you look at the right stuff.  If you only
look at 1-0 or 0-1, then longer games tell you more about how it plays at
longer time controls.

But if you look at the _moves_ you can pick out 'quality' or the lack thereof.
You can tell if a program has any understanding of passed pawns, king safety,
pawn structure, center control, mobility, etc.  Even without knowing _how_ the
game ended.  That is what I look at generally.  Knowing that longer time
controls will repair many of the tactical mistakes, but _none_ of the positional
mistakes...



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