Author: Melvin S. Schwartz
Date: 12:48:35 07/03/99
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On July 03, 1999 at 04:10:46, Sarah Bird wrote: >On July 03, 1999 at 00:28:59, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: > >> >>On July 02, 1999 at 23:42:15, James T. Walker wrote: >> >>>On July 02, 1999 at 22:55:21, Steve Lopez wrote: >>> >>>>On July 02, 1999 at 20:45:09, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Have you got it now? :-)))) >>>> >>>>That's the beauty of the Internet, man -- it allows one to make an ass of >>>>oneself worldwide in a matter of seconds. :-D >>>> >>>>-- Steve Lopez >>> >>>Hello Steve, >>>I also have Hiarcs 7.32. I'm very happy with the program including the opening >>>book. However, if you play the moves Mel suggest, here is the problem: It's >>>true that exf6 e.p. is in the book. So next you play Nd6+ and Hiarcs starts >>>thinking since it's out of book and plays Bxd6. After playing Bxd6 though, you >>>can now click the red backup arrow below the board and guess what shows up in >>>the book moves window, "9...Bxd6 no" in red! So it appears it's in the book as >>>a move not to make and following this guidline it does not make this "book move" >>>but when thinking on it's own it selects this move. >> >>Hello Jim >> >>Glad to see someone finally found out I was correct about that. I guess Mr. >>Lopez didn't make the effort to verify what I was talking about since he was so >>anxious to say I was wrong. We argued about that so much and I got so frustrated >>I had to visit my psychiatrist three times to get my head screwed back on. :) Oh >>well, that's life. By the way, that Bxd6 thing seems like a bug in the program. >>First of all, if Hiarcs didn't play Bxd6, it wouldn't be able to castle and its >>position would not be very good. The thing is if instead of playing f5 it should >>have played Qc7 which is in the tree as the favorite move with I believe 80% and >>f5 something like 18%. So it was a poor choice to play such a move which by the >>way is in the book. Qc7 instead of f5 would without question be the proper move. >>Oh, and by the time I get around to eliminating all the bad lines, I think there >>will be Hiarcs 8.32 and Fritz 6.32 to consider. :-) > >Since this all started about Hiarcs opening book being not to "GM Standard". >It still comes down to a final position after the moves: >1. e4......c5 >2. Nf3.....e6 >3. d4......cxd >4. Nxd.....Nf6 >5. Nc3.....Nc6 >6. Nxc6....bxc >7. e5......Nd5 >8. Ne4.....f5 >9. Nd6+....Bxd6 >10.exd.....0-0 >11.Be2.....Qb6 >12.c4......Nf6 >13.0-0 >At this point my hiarcs evaluate white as up 0.27 after 5 minutes. >Fritz 5.32 sees it as 0.41 after the same time frame. >I just don't see this as a faulty book line. >As for the pawn on d6 which you like so much to me it looks like more of a >weakness than a strength. >I also don't understand how, if you are playing this game with Hiarcs you get a >timeout for analysis of it's book moves. Since if you were ********************************* I will explain to you how that was done. First, I play 40/2, since I cannot play the whole game at one sitting, I save the game. After I save the game, the positon remains on the board. Now, I replay the moves with the tree and can see the the weights assigned to Hiarcs moves - that's where I saw Qc7 at 80% and f5, which you don't seem to mind, at about 18%. Now, that in itself says something - don't you think? So you think my pawn at d6 which is hemming in Hiarcs White Bishop somewhat is not effectively placed and is a weakness. Well, we shall see. At the present time I don't see a problem defending that pawn and I like what it's doing. I take it you don't see a problem with the pawn at d7. Okay, we shall see. If this position were given to a Grandmaster, I wonder what his or her comments would be about this and the Bishop's opening I posted - have you looked at that one? Mel *********************************** playing a correct >game against the computer, 1) you would not see any of it's book moves, 2) you >would not see any of it's thinking and\or + - =. I say this since you state it >as some miracle that after 13 moves you can possibly be up 0.4 of a pawn. I put >it to you that this is far from unusual to get out the opening up as white. To >be up by more than 0.5 over Fritz now there's another story. > >Try this one: >1. e4....g6 >2. d4....Bg7 >3. Nc3...c5 >4. dxc...Qa5 note: Hiarcs book has dxc no but not Fritz >5. Bd3... note: Hiarcs book only lists Bd2, Bd3 is from Fritz >However at this point Hiarcs jumps back into book and lists >5........Qxc5 with a variation to move 10 at which point it sees it as relativly >equal. Fritz lists this same 5.......Qxc5 with the same variation to move 10 at >which point it sees the same relatively equal position. >Yet: >5........Bxc3+ >6. bxc...Qxc3+ >7. Bd2...Qxc5 now a pawn up !! >After 3 minutes thought >Fritz sees itself as losing by 0.62 choosing Nf3 >Hiarcs sees it as equal and chooses Be3. >The whole point of this little story being that: >1. The evauation of a position is much more than just point score. >2. Computers all evaluate positions differently. >3. Computers score positions differently. >The final point being this is the earliest I can get over 0.5 with black against >Fritz lol. >Thanks >Sarah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>Regards, >>Mel >>>By the way, my Hiarcs did play some 1 b4, 1b3, 1 g3 moves when new, but after >>>losing most of them it hasn't played any of those opening move in the last 150 >>>games. So my advice to Mel is to beat it when it plays bad lines and it will >>>learn it's lesson and stop playing them. :-) >>>Jim Walker
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