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Subject: Re: Hiarcs 7.32 unable to see mate in its evaluation

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 11:00:11 07/19/99

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You are expecting way too much from chess engines.  In fact, for this position,
there is no sure mate within 14 plies.  For a chess engine to find such a move
with certainty, it would have to be deep blue or something phenomenal.
Here is the output of Heiner Marxen's excellent chess problem solving engine:

Reading job:
W:  Kg2 Qe3 Rc4 Bb2 Nd4 Ng4 Pb3 Pe4 Pf3 Pg3 Ph2 (11)
B:  Kg8 Qb7 Rc8 Be7 Nb8 Nd7 Pa6 Pe6 Pf7 Pg7 Ph7 (11)
FEN: 1nr3k1/1q1nbppp/p3p3/8/2RNP1N1/1P2QPP1/1B4KP/8 w - -
analysing (mate in 7 moves):
No solution in 7 moves.
refu  1: Nf6+   gf6    [  6-]
refu  2: Nh6+   gh6    [  6-]
refu  3: Rc8:+  Qc8:   [  6-]
refu  4: h3     Qb3:   [  6-]
refu  5: h4     Qe4:   [  6-]
refu  6: f4     Qe4:+  [  6-]
refu  7: e5     Qd5    [  6-]
refu  8: b4     Qe4:   [  6-]
refu  9: Ne5    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 10: Nf2    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 11: Nb5    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 12: Nc6    Qc7    [  6-]
solu         1: Qb3:   [  6+]
refu 13: Nc2    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 14: Ne6:   Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 15: Ne2    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 16: Nf5    Rc4:   [  6-]
solu         2: Qe4:   [  4+]
solu         3: Qb3:   [  4+]
refu 17: Bc3    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 18: Ba1    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 19: Bc1    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 20: Ba3    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 21: Rb4    Rc2+   [  6-]
refu 22: Ra4    Rc2+   [  6-]
refu 23: Rc5    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 24: Rc6    Qb3:   [  6-]
refu 25: Rc7    Qc7:   [  6-]
refu 26: Rc3    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 27: Rc2    Rc2:+  [  6-]
refu 28: Rc1    Rc2+   [  6-]
refu 29: Qd3    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 30: Qc3    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 31: Qe2    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 32: Qe1    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 33: Qf4    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 34: Qg5    Qc7    [  6-]
solu         4: Qe4:   [  6+]
solu         5: Qb3:   [  4+]
refu 35: Qh6    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 36: Qd2    Qb4    [  6-]
refu 37: Qc1    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 38: Qf2    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 39: Qg1    Qb3:   [  6-]
refu 40: Kf2    Qe4:   [  6-]
refu 41: Kg1    Qb3:   [  6-]
refu 42: Kh3    Qd5    [  6-]
refu 43: Kf1    Qb3:   [  6-]
refu 44: Kh1    Qb3:   [  6-]
Time (user) = 557.00 sec (ca. 9.3 min)

Here is the output from Crafty.  It does not find the 'best' move, even after 10
minutes (caveat, both of these runs were made on low priority and during a huge
compile...):

PFGA: EPD record: 1
              clearing hash tables
              time surplus   0.00  time limit 12:00 (12:00)
          s   depth   time  score   variation (1)
White(1): exit

                6     0.87   0.07   1. Rxc8+ Qxc8 2. Qc3 Qf8 3. Kg1 Nf6
                                    4. Nxf6+ Bxf6 5. Qd3 Qd6
                6     1.10   0.11   1. Qc3 Rxc4 2. Qxc4 Nb6 3. Qd3 Qd7
                                    4. Kg1
                6     1.66     ++   1. Nf5!!
                6     2.03   1.39   1. Nf5 Nc6 2. Nxg7 Nb6 3. Nh6+ Kf8
                                    4. Rc2
                6->   2.10   1.39   1. Nf5 Nc6 2. Nxg7 Nb6 3. Nh6+ Kf8
                                    4. Rc2
                7     3.43   1.76   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Nc6 5. Qf4
                7->   3.74   1.76   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Nc6 5. Qf4
                8     6.11   1.64   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kh8 3. Bxg7+ Kxg7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb2+ 5. Kh3 Qb4 6. Qd4+ f6
                                    7. Nc8
                8->   8.09   1.64   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kh8 3. Bxg7+ Kxg7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb2+ 5. Kh3 Qb4 6. Qd4+ f6
                                    7. Nc8
                9    12.99   1.74   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Nc6 5. Qa3+ Kd8 6. Qd6 Qc7
                9->  16.77   1.74   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Nc6 5. Qa3+ Kd8 6. Qd6 Qc7
               10    28.45   1.70   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Kd6 6. Be5+ Kc6
                                    7. Qf4 Nxe5 8. Nxe5+
               10->   1:50   1.70   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Kd6 6. Be5+ Kc6
                                    7. Qf4 Nxe5 8. Nxe5+
               11     2:20   1.55   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Ke8 6. Nf6+ Nxf6
                                    7. Bxf6 Nd7 8. Qg8+ Qf8 9. Qg5 Nxf6
                                    10. Qxf6
               11->   3:40   1.55   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Ke8 6. Nf6+ Nxf6
                                    7. Bxf6 Nd7 8. Qg8+ Qf8 9. Qg5 Nxf6
                                    10. Qxf6
               12     4:42   1.58   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Ke8 6. h4 Qxc4
                                    7. Qh5 Qe2+ 8. Nf2 Nc6 9. Qxh7
               12->   7:05   1.58   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Ke8 6. h4 Qxc4
                                    7. Qh5 Qe2+ 8. Nf2 Nc6 9. Qxh7
               13    10:11   1.58   1. Nf5 Rxc4 2. Nxe7+ Kf8 3. Bxg7+ Kxe7
                                    4. bxc4 Qb4 5. Qg5+ Ke8 6. h4 Qxc4
                                    7. Qh5 Nc6 8. Qxh7 Nd4
              time=12:00  cpu=99%  mat=0  n=76624316  fh=94%  nps=106295
              ext-> checks=5118843 recaps=314202 pawns=11854 1rep=326823
thrt:33550
              predicted=0  nodes=76624316  evals=8282941
              endgame tablebase-> probes done=0  successful=0

If, in fact, the stated move is really the best (quite likely it is) then it is
a very, very difficult position to solve.  Any engine that does solve it (with a
corresponding centipawn evaluation to show that it is not an accident) is to be
roundly congratulated.



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