# Computer Chess Club Archives

## Messages

### Subject: Re: MTD is a big disaster

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 17:35:49 07/20/99

Go up one level in this thread

```On July 20, 1999 at 11:25:07, Dan Homan wrote:

>On July 20, 1999 at 08:52:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>
>>Let's however write down some facts why my prog is unhappy with MTD.
>>It's up to others to generalize it to their progs:
>>
>>  - the huge number of researches needed. In DIEP my evaluation is nowadays
>>    in 1/1000 of a pawn. For a long time i had 1/200 of a pawn (in the time
>>    i experimented with MTD), but now i have 1/1000 of a pawn. So a drop
>>    of 0.20 pawn, which is a normal drop in DIEP, is in fact a drop of 200
>>    points. Happy researching!
>
>Even if the score dropped a whole pawn (1000 points in DIEP), this would
>only be 10 or 11 zero-width searches (2^10 = 1024) assuming that you
>bound the score in an efficient manner.  Also,  I can understand having
>a high resolution within the eval routine itself, but does it really help
>to have the output of the eval be in 1/1000 pawn units?  I wouldn't trust
>the sum total of any eval routine to 0.001 pawns! Maybe you could
>output the total eval in units of 1/100 of a pawn (or even less).
>
>Actually, that is an interesting question.  Does anyone know what the
>optimum eval unit is for searching?  I am talking here only about what
>the eval outputs - not the unit used internally for calculating the eval.
>I know that most programs use the same unit for both purposes, but I
>wonder if that is really optimum.

Every time i get to a draughts tournament i have to laugh a little when
playing a certain program. It has a stone at 1000 points worth,
yet he has no positional eval in 1/1000 of a stone. Only in 1/10 of a
pawn. So he's either at +0.100 or -0.100 or a multiple of that.

If you only count material in chess
you can of course simply use 10 for a pawn.
a pawn = 1, knight=3,bishop = 3, rook=5, queen=10
and you're ready. MTD will rock i bet.
and end the game with a window -100.

Sorry to bother you, forgot the name of your program and the number of
nodes a second you get with it.

> - Dan

```