Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Winning Chances vs Material/Positional Evaluation

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:23:58 07/29/99

Go up one level in this thread


On July 29, 1999 at 09:46:58, Chris Carson wrote:

>On July 29, 1999 at 09:29:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 29, 1999 at 08:25:58, Chris Carson wrote:
>>
>>>On July 29, 1999 at 07:16:32, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 28, 1999 at 18:16:24, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 28, 1999 at 17:50:51, Kristo Miettinen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The position is the opening array, all pieces in their initial positions. The
>>>>>>explanation about the eight pawns makes sense, intending to steer Crafty into
>>>>>>open waters (on the assumption that the opponent is human?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was looking into this on a whim, as I use the advantage of White in the
>>>>>>opening position as my quantum of positional value (on which scale the value of
>>>>>>a pawn is 6 quanta for me).
>>>>>Here is the C.A.P. record for that position.
>>>>>
>>>>>rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 15; ce -7; pv e4 e6 Nf3
>>>>>Bb4 Nc3 Ne7 Bc4 Nbc6 O-O O-O d4 Bxc3 bxc3 Na5 Bb5; pm e4; id "C.A.P. 4028";
>>>>>
>>>>>I bet you never knew crafty was French.
>>>>>
>>>>>Crafty thinks it is behind by 7 one hundredths of a pawn.  This is obviously
>>>>>conservative because white has a tempo at least.  But I don't think that it is
>>>>>grossly inaccurate.
>>>>
>>>>A correct evaluation is one that matches the winning percentages of the
>>>>position. I think white has about 54% in serious play, and if so the evaluation
>>>>should be about +0.20.
>>>>
>>>>Amir
>>>
>>>Amir,
>>>
>>>Interesting point.  If I read you correctly, the "Evaluation" should match
>>>the winning changes.  This is not the way most programs "Evaluate" a position.
>>>Granted that a higher "Eval" by a program should mean a higher "Chance" to
>>>win, it is normally not a "Percentage" based on results.
>>>
>>>I have thought that this might be a better method of "Evaluation", some
>>>programs do use a "Percentage" (Crafty) for opening book moves, but not
>>>for middle game or end game positions.
>>>
>>>Any thoughts on how to incorporate "Percentage" into the "Evaluate" function
>>>of a program (knowledge)?  Perhaps a "Percentage" "Evaluation" for positions
>>>and endgames as a part of the learning (Crafty might be able to do this)
>>>would be useful.  Any comments?
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>Chris Carson
>>
>>
>>I disagree.  Evaluations are not 'absolute' any more than FIDE Elo ratings are
>>absolute.  The correct evaluation is the one that lets you _win_ 54% (or better)
>>of the games from the opening position.  Whether the starting score is +1.00 or
>>-1.00 is immaterial so long as you choose the best move(s) by using those
>>scores...
>
>I agree with you, this makes the evaluation relative to the program/version
>that is doing the evaluation, thus a +0.3 may have a different meaning
>for program x than for program y, but is irrelevant as long as the
>best move is choosen by the program using the score.
>
>Best Regards,
>Chris Carson


right.. ie a good eval could produce -1, 0 and 1 and play using those scores
just so they are right.  That program could also use -1001, -1000, and -999
and produce the same result...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.