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Subject: Re: KQ vs kr position

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 18:13:38 08/04/99

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On August 04, 1999 at 20:14:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 03, 1999 at 16:46:23, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>On August 03, 1999 at 16:16:16, KarinsDad wrote:
>>
>>>On August 03, 1999 at 16:00:21, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 03, 1999 at 15:33:10, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>>>>>1. Instead of
>>>>>      distance to: mate
>>>>>
>>>>>2. Better is single number representing
>>>>>      distance to: mate OR win preseving capture OR win preserving pawn move
>>>>>                         (whichever comes soonest)
>>>>>
>>>>>The 2nd way you ALWAYS win a winnable position. I find it hard to believe
>>>>>Nalimov did his EGTB the way you assert (The 1st way). There is nothing I can
>>>>>think of that would make the 2nd way listed above significant more difficult to
>>>>>do. There is no good reason, I can think of, for using the 1st way in preference
>>>>>to the 2nd one.
>>>>>
>>>>>I hope this is more clear, otherwise, I give up.
>>>>How can this be done without the state of the current game information?  E.g., I
>>>>may have gone 49 moves without a capture -- but we clearly can't make the
>>>>tablebase files 50 times their current size and still have them be practical.
>>>
>>>That's the entire point Dann. This does not occur. The program keeps track of
>>>state information. The file keeps track of just a little more information. The
>>>file is slightly bigger (i.e. it has 3 sets of information in it which could
>>>really be dropped down to 2). In other words, the file says: x distance to mate
>>>here is the next move, y distance to win preserving move. The positions are
>>>already in that tablebase or in some other tablebase.
>>>
>>>The program keeps track of move by rep and 50 move rule. If x > 99 - number of
>>>moves made so far that apply to 50 move rule, then use the win preserving move
>>>instead of the mate move. If the mate move leads to a move by rep, then use the
>>>win preserving move instead (it does not matter whether the win preserving move
>>>is a capture or a pawn push, just as long as it preserves the win).
>>
>>Correcto! I consider it more likely that Bruce and Bob misunderstand the topic,
>>than Nalimov writing the program the way they suggest.
>>>
>
>
>
>no.. just go to my ftp site and download Eugene's code.  He really does not
>fiddle with the 50-move rule or _anything_.  If knnn vs k was a mate in 150
>(we haven't done the 4 vs 1 so I have no idea) then he reports it as a mate in
>150, not a 0 due to the 50 move rule.
>
>His code doesn't care about 50 move rules or repetition...  it isn't based on
>that kind of a search.  It simply takes mate in 1 positions, finds the moves
>that take us to predecessor positions and marks those as mated in 2, then
>the predecessors of those are marked as mate in 2, and so forth, until all
>positions are marked (excepting those that are illegal/impossible/etc.)
>
>
>
>>>Any win preserving move by default will automatically reset the 50 move rule.
>>>
>>>Eventually, you will get to a state where x <= 99 - number of moves made so far
>>>that apply to 50 move rule and you win.
>>>
>>>KarinsDad :)
>>>
>>>[snip]

You are absolutely correct here.



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