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Subject: Re: Meaningless Underpromotions

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 01:23:09 08/11/99

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On August 11, 1999 at 03:11:25, Shep wrote:

>On August 10, 1999 at 21:35:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 10, 1999 at 19:56:10, Marc Plum wrote:
>>
>>>A while back I ran some multiple engine tournaments within the Nimzo99
>>>interface.  One thing that I noticed was that some  programs would make
>>>meaningless underpromotions.  That is, in a position where a promoted pawn would
>>>be immediately exchanged anyway, the computer might promote to a bishop or rook
>>>rather than a queen.  I had occasionally encountered the same thing in my own
>>>games with computers; I also found a small number of computer games like this
>>>when doing a database search for underpromotions.  I don't have any statistics
>>>to present; I'm just noting that this happens not infrequently.
>>>
>>>When a human player does this, he is probably just being whimsical, or it could
>>>be a psychological ploy.  I wonder, though, why a computer would do it.  Is it
>>>just a random thing?  Does the computer reason that losing a bishop is less bad
>>>than losing a queen, even though the resulting position is the same? Or do
>>>computers like messing with people's minds too?
>>>
>>>Marc Plum
>>
>>Actually at times there is a valid reason.  If (say) d8=Q is a check, and d8=R
>>is not, then the program can choose whichever one maximizes the evaluation.  How
>>could they be different?  Remember that one is a check and will extend the
>>search while the other is not.  So if searching one extra ply discovers
>>something interesting, then =Q will get played.  If searching one extra ply
>>discovers something bad, then we avoid seeing the 'bad' by playing =R.
>>
>>Cute, eh?  :)
>
>There might be yet another very clever reason:
>
>If program A sees the promotion, his opponent, program B, will see it too.
>So Program B expects, say, d8=Q and has this information in its permanent brain.
>But Program A sees the promoted pawn will be immediately captured.
>So what would you do here if you were program A?
>Since it is meaningless whether you promote to Rook or Queen, what would you
>promote to?
>A queen, which Program B expects and which will allow it to use its PB info?
>Or a Rook, which takes Program B out of its PB and force it to re-search the
>position??
>See my point?
>
>I suppose it would be very easy to add such a promotion rule to a program,
>right, Bob? :-)
>
>[I have seen programs which just about always promote to a rook if they see an
>immediate recapture (IIRC, MChess and Hiarcs are some of them).
>This is more than a conincidence... :-]

It is extremely unlikely that anyone would intentionally do this, I believe.  It
would be more complex than you think, it would be a possible source of bugs, and
it would serve almost no purpose.

bruce



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