Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 10:32:06 08/12/99
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 1999 at 09:47:51, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 12, 1999 at 08:32:02, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On August 12, 1999 at 01:33:35, Dave Gomboc wrote: >> >>>On August 12, 1999 at 01:10:14, blass uri wrote: >>> >>>>This example shows that the null move is not a very good idea. >>>>If you need more 3*2=6 plies to see the right move and there is no >>>>zunzwnag(playing no move cannot help black) then you are not close to see >>>>everything to depth n-r with null move. >>>> >>>>I thought depth n when you use null move with R=2 means that except for >>>>zunzwangs you analyse everything to depth n-2 and I see that it is not the case. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Well, null-move is as you described, but what is shown above is "recursive >>>null-move", which seems to be pretty popular, and some people abbreviate >>>this as simply "null-move". It is the sort of search algorithm that gives >>>people a happy feeling inside about how deep they are searching, but leaves >>>holes for programs like DB to drive a truck through. Of course, Bob has pointed >>>this out more than once before. Consider how much is being chopped out of some >>>13 ply search, and you might agree that Bob isn't just being stubborn: there's >>>actually quite a big difference in coverage. >>> >>>Of course, those who use recursive null-move are making the reasonable gamble >>>that the extra coverage isn't beneficial at their search speeds. >>> >>>Dave >> >>Now this is pure BS. Even at 5 0 Deep blue gets kicked silly by a laptop. > > >total bullshit. >no counter-argument needed. When was the last time you beat my program? My >program can't beat Cray Blitz. Cray Blitz couldn't beat Deep Thought. Blitz >or tournament. Well there are a lot of eyewitnesses of the following: Rebel beating Anand Rebel beating deep blue junior at a small laptop. Shredder beating Rebel in paderborn. Now deduction: DB junior is a laptop version of deep blue. Rebel played at a laptop against DB. Shredder beating Rebel chanceless in world champs, So shredder beating Deep Blue chanceless. Not very surprising for 'depth' fanatics like you either, as Deep blue just gets 11 or 12 ply, and shredder regurarly got to 15 ply in paderborn. So it just gets outsearched positional completely. Secondly i played myselve against deep blue junior, andit played positional so bad (tactical it played perfect), that with a lot of manoeuvring i got it play all kind of crap pawn moves, which even a 3 ply search in DIEP would not have make it play such horrible moves. Anyway. All facts together leads to deduction: Shredder beats Deep Blue chanceless.
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