Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 11:48:52 08/24/99
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 1999 at 13:24:38, rich wrote:
>On August 24, 1999 at 10:05:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 1999 at 04:02:10, rich wrote:
>>
>>>First of all, how can you know for sure this person is a cheater?
>>>Innocent until found guilty, anyone ?!?
>>
>>If you had read _my_ post, you would have noticed that I did look at the
>>games carefully, and ran them thru my 'computer screening' methodology. And
>>that I reported this person to the FICS admins.
>>
>
>>He was _definitely_ cheating.
>
>> Could you explain this "computer screening methodology" ?
>
>>
briefly I look at time/move for several games. computers are pretty
consistent. Humans are not. I am particularly suspicious of a human
that loses in a zero increment game where the last 20 moves each took
3-4 seconds, while a _real_ player would speed up. But it is hard to
speed up if you are transferring moves manually from an ICC interface to
a chess program interface and back again.
If the games 'match' then I run several 'blunder check' runs with crafty's
annotate feature. I look for (a) no blunders and (b) moves that seem to lose
material at shallow searches but which don't at much deeper levels. After
those, I look for obvious computer moves that no human would consider.
>>
>>
>>>Second, I can't find any evidence in any of the posts in this thread.
>>>Third, maybe all of you just can't realize that some unrated players
>>>are very good chessplayers.I have myself beaten a GM once(I'm 1761 club-rating)
>>>and from time to time I win CM 6000 in long games(I'm a CM connaisseur).
>>>Furthermore a friend of mine ( unrated, never participates in tournament of any
>>>kind)regularly whoops my bottom at the chessboard.Every time I play him I
>>>FEEL I am getting slowly, positionally grinded down by a 2400 player.
>>
>>Beating a GM one game out of how many? That is a _lot_ easier than beating
>>Crafty 3 games in a row, something that I have _never_ seen any GM player do.
>>
>> A: Out of 1 game May I ask for statistics?(crafty vs. GM's , number of
> games and wins losses draws)
>
go to ICC and type this: (where "GM" should be replaced by any GM handle
that plays on ICC)
search +=crafty GM
search -=crafty GM
here's a few:
Crafty vs GM Sierawan 110 wins 52 losses 40 draws
Crafty vs Roman 72 wins 16 losses 30 draws (this for only one roman
handle, he has many)
Crafty vs Kamsky 173 wins 38 losses 39 draws
Crafty vs cptnbluebear 286 wins 49 losses 139 draws
Crafty vs Dlugy 37 wins 12 losses 11 draws
etc.
>>
>>>Actually it feels like playing Karpov or Petrosjan.Oh and by the way did I
>>>mention that he(my friend) has played my CM 6000 with a record of 13 wins,
>>>1 draw and 1 loss?
>>>
>>
>>
>>it is easy to do this in uncontrolled conditions. Watching the analysis
>>window. Taking back moves. Slow computer. etc... He should try dropping
>>over to ICC and demonstrating his skill against some of the very strong
>>programs there where he has to play like he would in a real game. I'd bet
>>he has _zero_ chances of beating _any_ program 13 times. Unless he plays a
>>million games or two.
>>
>> The conditions were not uncontrolled.The games were played at my home,
> without aids of any kind at G/35
I simply don't believe it. Have your friend log on to ICC. He should be
able to beat Crafty just as easily 3 in a row...
>>
>>
>>> So that's that.Thinking somebody is a cheater is not enough.
>>>Hard evidence is required, IMHO
>>
>>
>>I agree. But it is not hard to figure out if you go over the games with a
>>careful eye and use a program to check for blunders (or the lack thereof).
>
> So if someone doesn't drop a piece in a blitz game against Crafty that person
>is likely to have cheated.?!?? Get a grip.Could it be that you are simply
>underestimating human tactical ability?I know some players that are tactical
>genuises with ~1900 elo and no better because they are bad strategicallly.
No... I check a lot more than that. And I "have a grip" thank you. If someone
is a 'tactical genius' then their blitz rating will be way higher than normal,
because blitz is much less positional and more about tactics. Bring 'em on...
a demonstration is much better than 'claims'... I've only watched several
_thousand_ human vs computer games... I have a pretty good idea what a human
can do. And if a GM can't do it, no 'unrated player' is going to do it either.
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