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Subject: Re: Amazing human...? = This whole thread is silly

Author: odell hall

Date: 15:32:40 08/24/99

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On August 24, 1999 at 17:04:21, KarinsDad wrote:

>On August 24, 1999 at 15:45:38, odell hall wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 1999 at 14:05:06, KarinsDad wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 1999 at 13:24:38, rich wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>> So if someone doesn't drop a piece in a blitz game against Crafty that person
>>>>is likely to have cheated.?!?? Get a grip.Could it be that you are simply
>>>>underestimating human tactical ability?I know some players that are tactical
>>>>genuises with ~1900 elo and no better because they are bad strategicallly.
>>>
>>>I think it is not Robert underestimating human tactical ability, but you
>>>drastically overestimating it. Even tactical geniuses need time. To not drop a
>>>pawn in a complex position in 3 to 7 seconds (the range of time used by the
>>>person James was talking about) is the work of someone who is extremely
>>>experienced in chess (i.e. GM level) or the work of a cheater. I doubt very much
>>>you know tactical geniuses with ~1900 elo (i.e. they may be sharp, but they are
>>>not geniuses or their rating would be much higher) since computers can play 2300
>>>elo as tactical geniuses without having a shread of strategy in them.
>>>
>>>Bobby Fischer once missed a mate in one in a standard time game. How can someone
>>>of his calibre miss a mate in one? I forget who the players were (one of them
>>>may have been Fine) where one GM missed a mate in two followed by his opponent
>>>missing a mate in two. And these are GMs we are talking about.
>>>
>>>It is unreasonable to think that even a tactical genius will be 100% sharp
>>>throughout one entire blitz game, let alone three in a row. If a player takes 4
>>>to 5 seconds for most every move, does not make any minor tactical mistakes (I'm
>>>talking 1/4 pawn here, not even a full pawn), then the handwriting is on the
>>>wall. People can claim that it's "possible" for these types of events to occur,
>>>but statistically speaking, people have been sent to jail on a lot less evidence
>>>and on less probable of events.
>>>
>>>Note: This person took 5 seconds on 12 of the first 21 moves. He then took 4
>>>seconds on 14 of the last 19 moves. This implies someone getting more and more
>>>used to operating a program in the background. The consistency of time, lack of
>>>quick 1 or 2 second moves, and lack of moves over 7 seconds is extremely
>>>noteworthy in a blitz game. Go check out a bunch of GM games against computers
>>>and see if they are as consistent.
>>>
>>>KarinsDad :)
>>
>>
>>Karinsday, I can hardly believe that it is you I am hearing saying these things,
>>especially in light of the extremely hard time you gave me about five months ago
>>on this very issue, I had as much proof or more, yet you continually told me
>>that I cannot prove that the person I named was cheating!!!
>
>Odell,
>
>I looked it up (posts 46628, 46630, etc.). Our contention was not on whether you
>proved the person cheated or not. Our contention was on naming the chess server
>handle of the cheater here on this forum. You thought it was fine. I did not.
>
>I did mention in ONE of those many posts that you did not prove that the person
>you named was cheating, but I posted that statement due to missing one of your
>other posts and I apologized for posting that statement at the time.
>
>I have repeatedly said (then and now) that discussing the issue and looking at
>the data is fine. I just thought then (and now) that it is inappropriate to name
>server handles (and please, let's not start that one up again).
>
>I hope you re-evaluate my "flakiness". :)
>
>KarinsDad :)

  No ofcourse I don't want to rehash the topic, as far as I am concerned it's
dead and buried, ofcourse being only human I could not restrain myself on
commenting, when this entire newgroup attacked me then, yet I see the same issue
mentioned with no condemnination, it just made me wonder.



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