Author: odell hall
Date: 19:44:20 08/24/99
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 1999 at 21:35:33, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 24, 1999 at 16:04:05, odell hall wrote: > >>On August 24, 1999 at 15:00:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 24, 1999 at 11:07:02, Zachariah Amela wrote: >>> >>>>How does FICS stop cheaters? I know they run rampant at times. >>>> >>>>Could there sys query the client for any memory resident chess prgs? I know >>>>this doesn't rule out a cheater w/ a second PC or network, but it would be a >>>>start. Just curios. >>> >>> >>>I have suggested that the only reasonable way to control cheating is to control >>>the client software. ICC ought to take their blitzin interface, and modify it >>>and the server so that blitzin is the _only_ interface that will work. And then >>>they can take countermeasures inside blitzin to address the cheating issue, >>>without having all the other interfaces that would not have the countermeasures >>>included. >>> >>>Until that happens, it is hopeless... >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Also, how does Crafty know that it is playing a cheater w/ a (c)? Dr. Hyatt >>>>mentioned that he had a prg that did this. I was curios how it worked. >>> >>> >>>Not quite what I said. I gave some patches to Tim Mann (for winboard/xboard) >>>that recongizes when the opponent is in the 'computer' list. It will then >>>tell the chess engine by sending a command "computer" to the program. If a >>>person is using a computer, and has a (C) on their handle, then this code works >>>fine. But it doesn't work if the person is 'cheating' as it won't have any >>>idea the guy is using a computer. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Lastly, Dr. Hyatt said that no GM has beaten Crafty three games in a row. Has >>>>Kasparov ever "officially" taken on Crafty? I would be interested in that game. >>>> >>>>Thanks. >>> >>> >>>Not that I can verify. I can't think of another GM that hasn't, however, from >>>Karpov on down. I tend to think Kasparov has not played Crafty, because the >>>last comment I saw from him was something like "It is weak, actually". Of >>>course, I'd be more than happy to take him on in a blitz match to see how weak >>>it really is. :) >>> >>>But actually, playing him isn't a real priority of mine, because if Crafty won, >>>we'd have to put up with whining about poor conditions, too noisy, the computer >>>had help, etc. IE there would be _no way_ to win against him... even to win >>>would be to lose, IMHO. >>> >>>I prefer to play all the other GM players that _do not_ have the obnoxious >>>attitude. There are plenty of them, with Kamsky right at the top of the list, >>>but with many others that are equally as congenial. >> >> >> I don't think you can make the assumption that because Kaspy said Crafty is >>"Weak" he has not played it. I have had conversations on computer chess with >>other titled players on icc who have said the same thing about crafty. Naturally >>as the program author you would be on the defensive, but I don't think every >>player that says this is attacking you personally, perhaps this is just their >>honest assessment. I would have to put my money on kaspy against any program >>even at blitz. Kaspy is a supreme chess analyst, if their is any one that can >>find the weakness in a program it is him. That's why i would think after ten >>games or so, he could know exactly how to beat a program three times in a row. > >I can't imagine a GM playing crafty, winning 3 of 10 games if he is lucky, then >saying "this program is weak". I can think of three players on ICC that were >giving analysis during some GM event a while back, including Dlugy, Kamsky and >Shirov. And at one point, with Crafty giving analysis of a deep tactical >position... all three said simply "Listen to crafty, it knows what is going on >here better than we do...". > >As far as kaspy at blitz, he is _not_ the best blitz player in the world. And >I'd be more than happy to play him a match of 5 0 games on ICC any day. >Actually, maybe I wouldn't, because I don't want the headache. But I'd gladly >play other GM players at blitz without a second thought, and I'd be not just >disappointed but completely surprised if Crafty didn't win easily. It has >destroyed GM Browne at even longer blitz time controls (5 14 for one example) >and he is very strong as a blitz player. From my vantage point, both from >watching and talking with many GM players that I have a lot of respect for, I >think Karpov is the best blitz player in the world, and I can tell you how >crafty would do (and did) against him. :) > >He fares no better than any other top GM I have seen play it... But as far as >the "weak" comment goes, I simply can't imagine a GM saying that, unless it was >qualified as "It is weak at long time controls, maybe". But to say it is weak >at blitz is like saying Chuck Norris is incompetent as a street-fighter. Bad >idea. _very_ bad idea. :) I really don't think he meant "weak" literally I think he is speaking relatively, he is saying crafty is weak compared to the other top programs. Like you said if you take him literally it is irrational. We all know the Kaspy plays Fritz and junior, hiarcs quite frequently.
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