Author: Dave Gomboc
Date: 23:45:32 08/24/99
Go up one level in this thread
On August 25, 1999 at 01:12:03, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 24, 1999 at 22:44:20, odell hall wrote: > >>On August 24, 1999 at 21:35:33, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 24, 1999 at 16:04:05, odell hall wrote: >>> >>>>On August 24, 1999 at 15:00:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 24, 1999 at 11:07:02, Zachariah Amela wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>How does FICS stop cheaters? I know they run rampant at times. >>>>>> >>>>>>Could there sys query the client for any memory resident chess prgs? I know >>>>>>this doesn't rule out a cheater w/ a second PC or network, but it would be a >>>>>>start. Just curios. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I have suggested that the only reasonable way to control cheating is to control >>>>>the client software. ICC ought to take their blitzin interface, and modify it >>>>>and the server so that blitzin is the _only_ interface that will work. And then >>>>>they can take countermeasures inside blitzin to address the cheating issue, >>>>>without having all the other interfaces that would not have the countermeasures >>>>>included. >>>>> >>>>>Until that happens, it is hopeless... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Also, how does Crafty know that it is playing a cheater w/ a (c)? Dr. Hyatt >>>>>>mentioned that he had a prg that did this. I was curios how it worked. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Not quite what I said. I gave some patches to Tim Mann (for winboard/xboard) >>>>>that recongizes when the opponent is in the 'computer' list. It will then >>>>>tell the chess engine by sending a command "computer" to the program. If a >>>>>person is using a computer, and has a (C) on their handle, then this code works >>>>>fine. But it doesn't work if the person is 'cheating' as it won't have any >>>>>idea the guy is using a computer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Lastly, Dr. Hyatt said that no GM has beaten Crafty three games in a row. Has >>>>>>Kasparov ever "officially" taken on Crafty? I would be interested in that game. >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Not that I can verify. I can't think of another GM that hasn't, however, from >>>>>Karpov on down. I tend to think Kasparov has not played Crafty, because the >>>>>last comment I saw from him was something like "It is weak, actually". Of >>>>>course, I'd be more than happy to take him on in a blitz match to see how weak >>>>>it really is. :) >>>>> >>>>>But actually, playing him isn't a real priority of mine, because if Crafty won, >>>>>we'd have to put up with whining about poor conditions, too noisy, the computer >>>>>had help, etc. IE there would be _no way_ to win against him... even to win >>>>>would be to lose, IMHO. >>>>> >>>>>I prefer to play all the other GM players that _do not_ have the obnoxious >>>>>attitude. There are plenty of them, with Kamsky right at the top of the list, >>>>>but with many others that are equally as congenial. >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think you can make the assumption that because Kaspy said Crafty is >>>>"Weak" he has not played it. I have had conversations on computer chess with >>>>other titled players on icc who have said the same thing about crafty. Naturally >>>>as the program author you would be on the defensive, but I don't think every >>>>player that says this is attacking you personally, perhaps this is just their >>>>honest assessment. I would have to put my money on kaspy against any program >>>>even at blitz. Kaspy is a supreme chess analyst, if their is any one that can >>>>find the weakness in a program it is him. That's why i would think after ten >>>>games or so, he could know exactly how to beat a program three times in a row. >>> >>>I can't imagine a GM playing crafty, winning 3 of 10 games if he is lucky, then >>>saying "this program is weak". I can think of three players on ICC that were >>>giving analysis during some GM event a while back, including Dlugy, Kamsky and >>>Shirov. And at one point, with Crafty giving analysis of a deep tactical >>>position... all three said simply "Listen to crafty, it knows what is going on >>>here better than we do...". >>> >>>As far as kaspy at blitz, he is _not_ the best blitz player in the world. And >>>I'd be more than happy to play him a match of 5 0 games on ICC any day. >>>Actually, maybe I wouldn't, because I don't want the headache. But I'd gladly >>>play other GM players at blitz without a second thought, and I'd be not just >>>disappointed but completely surprised if Crafty didn't win easily. It has >>>destroyed GM Browne at even longer blitz time controls (5 14 for one example) >>>and he is very strong as a blitz player. From my vantage point, both from >>>watching and talking with many GM players that I have a lot of respect for, I >>>think Karpov is the best blitz player in the world, and I can tell you how >>>crafty would do (and did) against him. :) >>> >>>He fares no better than any other top GM I have seen play it... But as far as >>>the "weak" comment goes, I simply can't imagine a GM saying that, unless it was >>>qualified as "It is weak at long time controls, maybe". But to say it is weak >>>at blitz is like saying Chuck Norris is incompetent as a street-fighter. Bad >>>idea. _very_ bad idea. :) >> >> >>I really don't think he meant "weak" literally I think he is speaking >>relatively, he is saying crafty is weak compared to the other top programs. >>Like you said if you take him literally it is irrational. We all know the Kaspy >>plays Fritz and junior, hiarcs quite frequently. > > >So does crafty (play the commercial programs.) On the quad xeon, it does just >fine, too. No telling what Kasparov played to make that comment. But it wasn't >'crafty' as I know crafty... My guess would be that he was using Crafty as a Fritz engine. I remember that not too long after he made that comment, it was discovered that Fritz didn't send the same commands that Winboard did. Has Crafty performed better as a Fritz engine since this was made public? Dave
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