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Subject: Re: Grandmaster AKopian played Crafty on Icc

Author: James Robertson

Date: 11:42:43 08/27/99

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On August 27, 1999 at 11:32:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 27, 1999 at 01:28:41, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On August 27, 1999 at 00:09:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 26, 1999 at 21:34:13, odell hall wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 14:01:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 12:55:01, odell hall wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 10:36:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 08:41:37, odell hall wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 07:32:06, Claudio A. Amorim wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 02:21:39, odell hall wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  If anyone is interested in how crafty would do against Grandmaster Atopkian do
>>>>>>>>>>a Search Crafty Vagr on icc.  After these Games were played I asked Akopian What
>>>>>>>>>>happened surprised that he lost. He said he was experimenting with some opening.
>>>>>>>>>>However he admitted that he could not beat crafty and claimed this fact as the
>>>>>>>>>>reason he played it so few games. Ofcourse these were all blitz games. Akopian
>>>>>>>>>>said that playing the computers at 40/2 would not be interesting for him because
>>>>>>>>>>they would be no challenge.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I think Akopian is plain wrong on this matter. Playing the best programs at 40/2
>>>>>>>>>is already a challenge even to the very best human players in the world, and
>>>>>>>>>Akopian is hardly in that league (Kasparov, Anand, Kramminik, etc., etc.). FIDE
>>>>>>>>>Championship, these days, is a display of physical will and blitz wizardy. It
>>>>>>>>>has little to do with top level chess.
>>>>>>>>>I'd love to see a tournament involving the greatest human and the better
>>>>>>>>>computers, round robin, $500.000 to 1st place. Matters should be more clear,
>>>>>>>>>them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cláudio.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  While I do believe programs are low GM Strength I don't think any program out
>>>>>>>>there could defeat a 2600 Grandmaster like akopian at 40/2 in a match. I don't
>>>>>>>>think one has to be garry kasparov , or annand to beat the best micros at long
>>>>>>>>time controls.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You had better be careful... you are beginning to sound a lot like me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  No Bob I have never maintained that Computers are 2600 strength. I do believe
>>>>>>they are between 2500-2540, ofcourse this is a long way from where you stand, I
>>>>>>believe you said they are around the low 2400's. In view of all the recent 40/2
>>>>>>games I doubt you still have such a low opionion of programs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I have been fairly consistent saying 2450 is what I would peg as the upper bound
>>>>>of today's programs...
>>>>>
>>>>>lets see, estimated TPR so far would be roughly 2200+2600+2600 (one loss,
>>>>>rating-400, two draws, generously giving the opponents 2600 ratings).  That
>>>>>turns out to be 7400/3 which is 2466.  Right in line with my speculation,
>>>>>wouldn't you say?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     This May sound good, but there is only one major problem, You are
>>>>conviently ignoring the results at the WCCC99 Where Fritz5 beat Sokolov along
>>>>with the draws against 2600+ players, I bet if you factor in these number that
>>>>2466 will disappear.  Even if you were correct how can you make a elo claim
>>>>based on three games, I am sure you know this is not accurate.  COme on Bob Let
>>>>go of the pride and admitt that computers are much better than you originally
>>>>thought.  You yourself admitted that Rebel's results so far are very good.
>>>
>>>
>>>(1) you can't cherry pick.  IE you can't pick a tournament where fritz does
>>>well and use that, and ignore one where it gets torn up.  I am using Rebel as
>>>a reference point, because I am just taking _every_ game in Ed's GM challenge,
>>>and not counting others.
>>>
>>>Count them if you want, of course...  but if you pick the right events, you
>>>can prove anything you want...  It's been done before...
>>>
>>>(2) you can use 3 games to produce a 'performance rating'.  That is what it is
>>>all about.  And yes, I think 2466 is a very good result for Rebel.  It is a bit
>>>better than I expected...  and is no disgrace at all.
>>
>>I thought that your intent was to pick all of the 40/2 games starting with the
>>first game of the Rebel GM challenge.  This would then include the 3 games Rebel
>>has played so far, along with the 5 games at Paderborn.
>>
>>Dave
>
>
>I'm not sure what you mean "5 games at paderborn"???
>
>Bob

5 games from the GM - top 5 finishers at the WCCC match.

Jmaes



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