Author: Frank Quisinsky
Date: 04:43:37 08/29/99
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Hello Ed, >I agree all programs have this problem but you overlook one important thing >which is my main complaint to make engine-engine on one PC being trustworthy. >Due to the lack of the permanent brain the "time control" (TC) gets messed >up. TC is an important part of a chess program. Chess programs for instance >are keen to keep a certain amount of spare time in case the program finds >itself in trouble (dropping score etc.). Without a permanent brain this "spare >time" case is going to fail as the permanent brain definitely is a part of it. I think that permanent brain is not importent for fast systems. When I see ... Example ! 09/01 in 10 sec. 10/01 in 40 sec. 11/01 in 4 min. 12/01 in 16 min. 13/01 in 4 std. 14/01 in 3 days The engines found the "better" moves on fast machines with or without ponder. In the last years permanet brain was importent and when the hardware is faster and faster I think that is not so importent. For me is 100 more processor power not 70 ELO ! I mean (example) ... AMD K6-3 200 AMD K6-3 400 70 ELO AMD K6-3 800 50 ELO AMD K6-3 1600 30 ELO AMD K6-3 3200 20 ElO And at the moment the hardware is very fast. So I think that ponder is not so importent !!! What will the engine with ponder on an AMD K6-3 1600 MHz better play and found ? When I play games with an longer time control is this OK on one PC ! >This is just one example. I am sure that in every program TC is done in >different ways as there are many things involved in TC. Yes, I think also ! But ... Another example ! The engine play on one computer the move 5 in 1:56 (Engine think on PB hints). Normely must play the engine move 5 in 1:00 (not PB hints). Moves before the time control endings the engine must play blitz moves (not PB hints, 1PC, 2 engine in engine-engine mode). And here is a problem. The engine Crafty had for the last 10 moves (30-40, 40 moves in 40 minutes) 10 minutes. Why ? And why had Crafty for the last 10 moves not 1 minute. This is for me not logic. >To compete in engine-engine on one PC the program needs a *special* >TC that takes care of the lack of the permanent brain. Next the program >needs a piece of smart software that automatically detects that it is forced >to play without its permanent brain because it is unlikely the user has set >the permanent brain to "off" for the match, right? Yes this is right ! >The bottom line: program_X may have all done this and program_Y not. If >so program_X will have a very big advantage. I estimate it at 50-100 elo. >And how can you know that if it is done or not? Yes this is right ! But which programs is the question ! When I play matches on one PC I looked in the debug and log files and I can not see this problems for Winboard engines. OK, ZChess play moves 1-40 in 25-35 minutes or AnMon play moves 1-30 in 35 minutes, that in right. I think this is not this TC problem (40 moves in 40 minutes). And Ed, in the more time (example AnMon) AnMon can find an better move and so I mean that is for an statistic not so relevant. >I noticed this for the first time playing the Crafty-Rebel8 NPS game. Crafty >and Rebel had to play without the permanent game to make the game >valid for its purpose. Yes ! >Because the lack of the permanent brain Rebel8 came into time trouble >because the program wasn't suited to play without. If Bob hadn't been >so sportsmanlike to handle this manually I am sure the game and result >would have been different. Yes the games have been different but is this importent when I play an match with 50 games on one PC or an match with 50 games on two PCs ? I think this is not importent when the engine on one PC correct run. It is very importent when the engine under one PC not correct play ! And why two PCs. More and more people play tournaments and matches on one PC. The people will see we the favorit program play. It is very nice when I can with Chess-Base GUIs play matches Fritz-Junior or with WinBaord play matches JRCP-InmiChess. I can looking an good football game or an good chess game. And I think people have more interest on this games, not interest on autoplayer games. Another people will make analyses from games or will play against the engine. I mean that that programmer give an GUI and an Engine. So the people can play with Rebel under WinBoard or Fritz or Chess Vision, Chess Partner, MCS or the people can play with Rebel under DOS ! Kind regards Frank
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